Evidence of meeting #86 for Status of Women in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was indigenous.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies
I'm just going to flip it in.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
I'm sorry Kassandra. We'll try to work that in.
I'm just going to move on to Brigitte Sansoucy for her seven minutes.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
My first question is for the Native Women's Association of Canada.
Officials from the Correctional Service of Canada have appeared before the committee and said the following:
Our approach to working with indigenous women is holistic and women-centred, and is built to address their unique needs and contribute to their safe and timely reintegration into the community. [...] CSC has a stream of correctional programs specifically designed for them [...]
Various experts have appeared before the committee and denied that statement.
Last August, you published a report indicating not only that aboriginal women offenders in federal custody do not have access to adequate programs and services during their sentence, but also that the existing programs are not culturally suitable or focused on their reintegration into the community.
More than six months after your report, and in light of the testimony by the Correctional Service that I just quoted, do you still come to the same conclusions?
4:05 p.m.
Legal Counsel, Native Women's Association of Canada
The question is, have we changed our opinion—
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Yes. The people from the Correctional Service maintain that everything is fine.
4:05 p.m.
Legal Counsel, Native Women's Association of Canada
—on whether service is directed toward indigenous women adequately?
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Whether there is a focus on reintegration into the community?
4:05 p.m.
Legal Counsel, Native Women's Association of Canada
You're asking whether or not there is an adequate focus on reintegration back into community?
4:05 p.m.
Legal Counsel, Native Women's Association of Canada
I don't think we would have changed our position on that at all. As much as some of these programs are targeted toward indigenous women, our understanding is that the differences between indigenous women have not been recognized and the focus on reintegration into the community quite simply isn't there.
One of the really big problems we have been finding is that some indigenous women are sort of “incentivized out” of using the programs that are directed towards them, because the process to get into the programs can take so long that it's quicker for them to get parole if they don't opt for their culturally relevant programs. Another major issue is just the classification of women in even being able to access the programs. Over-classification of indigenous women in maximum security prisons is a very real problem.
While programs may be developed and there is hope that these programs will be directed toward reintegration, one of the biggest issues we're seeing is the push towards a homogenized idea of what it means to reintegrate indigenous women back into their communities. Also, they're simply not accessing those services.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Thank you.
My next questions are for representatives of both the Native Women's Association of Canada and the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies.
I would like to talk about searches and the use of force. The members of the Elizabeth Fry Society who visited the Edmonton institution last fall said they were shocked to see that aboriginal women were subject to very invasive searches. They were asked to lift up their breasts and spread their buttocks. This brings up painful memories for those who may have been sexually assaulted. You said that a female offender who had refused this type of search was pepper sprayed.
According to the Office of the Correctional Investigator, in 2016-17, strip search procedures were not followed 25% of the time.
I would like to hear your recommendations regarding search practices and the use of force.
4:10 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies
I would like to answer the other question, the one you asked earlier.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
No problem. If you have additional information, that is fine.
4:10 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies
This is interesting. We are talking about the rehabilitation of aboriginal women and their reintegration into the community, yet we know that there is not enough housing in aboriginal communities and that mental health and addiction treatment services are insufficient. There is some willingness, but where can the women turn? Even their own community does not have access to the services they need. The infrastructure and resources needed to help women rehabilitate and reintegrate into the community upon release are not there.
Prevention work is needed as well as the necessary resources in the community to support aboriginal women upon release.
I will let my colleague talk about strip searches.
4:10 p.m.
Director, Advocacy and Legal Issues, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies
Strip-searching has been a very large issue that we have begun to really try to address this year. Certain prisons are engaging in mandatory strip-searching after all PFVs—private family visits—and all escorted temporary absences out to programs, to church, and to work releases. Essentially, women are engaging in programming that they must engage in for their correctional plan to move toward successful release and, as a result, when they are returned to the prison, they are being strip-searched.
That's happening on a mandatory basis at Grand Valley prison for women. We've been trying to challenge that since September at least, and definitely before then. The same issue is happening at EIFW, absolutely. I spoke with one woman who, because of the level system, was strip-searched every time she returned after being brought off the max unit to engage in programming that was dealing with trauma or the issues that led to her incarceration in the first place.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
Thank you so much. That was great.
We're now going to continue with Pam Damoff for seven minutes.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
I have a number of questions I'd like to ask, so if you could keep your answers brief, that would be helpful. Thanks to all of you for the work you are doing on this issue.
I did have the privilege of visiting the Buffalo Sage healing lodge. One of the programs that the women talked about is the I Am a Warrior program. I believe that what's it's called. It's offered at Buffalo Sage because it's run by the Native Counselling Services of Alberta, but in CSC-run healing lodges it's not allowed. Are you familiar with the program? Do you think it should be more widely available?
4:15 p.m.
Legal Counsel, Native Women's Association of Canada
I'm not familiar with that program.
Are you, Savannah?
4:15 p.m.
Director, Advocacy and Legal Issues, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies
No, I'm not familiar with the program, but it's not surprising to me that the healing lodges run by CSC wouldn't allow certain programming like that. Unfortunately, the CSC-run healing lodges have become increasingly more secure environments. In fact, section 81 doesn't require that a community create an institution for section 81 agreements. It can just mean bringing into the community resources—mental health resources—that address the actual needs of that person. You don't need an institution for that.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Working on better programming that's more culturally sensitive and not being as prescriptive in programming...?
4:15 p.m.
Director, Advocacy and Legal Issues, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies
Absolutely.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Okay.
I want to talk about mandatory minimums because I met a number of women who had been caught up in being sentenced under mandatory minimums, one of whom was at the medium-security Edmonton Institution for Women. I wonder if you could comment very briefly on the impact that mandatory minimums have had, and if you think we should be looking at getting rid of mandatory minimums for everything except the most egregious crimes.
4:15 p.m.
Legal Counsel, Native Women's Association of Canada
Absolutely. It's certainly something that we think needs to end. One of the big reasons for this is that indigenous women are often presumed to be a higher-risk individual or more violent than other women. This is a stereotype, but it infuses our justice system, and this is certainly impacting indigenous women and extending their stays beyond what they may actually serve in circumstances...to be brief.
4:15 p.m.
Director, Advocacy and Legal Issues, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies
To do away with a judge's discretion means that you cannot consider the context of a woman's crime, and women's crimes absolutely need to be placed in their context. If it's a violent crime, there's often resistive violence. Often, there's abuse that has led to the crime.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
One of the ladies we met had been in an abusive relationship and was at Buffalo Sage. She was very thankful she was there and not in a different type of institute.
The other one is accelerated parole, which is for low-risk, non-violent offenders. The previous government got rid of that. What I heard a lot from everyone to whom I spoke is that it was meaning that people were having to stay in institutions longer rather than being reintegrated into the community. What are your thoughts on reinstituting accelerated parole?