Status of Women Committee on Feb. 6th, 2018

[Claire Carefoot]

Yes. We have a mother-child program. We have several little ones there at once. It makes it a home for everybody. It also gives a clear message to everyone that there cannot be any drugs or alcohol at Buffalo Sage or we will lose the children. They're all mums, even if their kids have been taken away from them. They are all mums, so they understand that, and it's really interesting to watch them all look after the children and grow with the children.

We can't take children over school age, because we worry about moving them around after the woman gets out on day parole or goes further, because then the kids would have to change schools and it would be really disruptive, but we do keep them up until school age.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

What happens after that?

[Claire Carefoot]

Well, we've had a few that we've kept a little longer until their mums went a bit further. We do bend our own rules to help the women. That's what our policy is.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

Do you find that when the children are present there is a correlation between how well the women do when released? Is there any kind of...? What I'm trying say is that we want to recommend that the children stay with their parents, so—

[Claire Carefoot]

Absolutely. It makes the whole house settled. Everybody takes care of those children. It's really quite amazing to watch. We have had times when there haven't been any children there, so when the little kids come back in and somebody brings their child now.... I think we have three. A woman has two of them there. We've allowed her to keep two of them there. They're just so special. They bring a lot....

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

I'm going to go to you, Chas. Thank you so much for your testimony, and congratulations on how well you're doing.

You mentioned that you have a daughter.

[Chas Coutlee]

Yes.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Was she with you during incarceration?

[Chas Coutlee]

No, she's too old. My daughter is 22.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

She's older.

[Chas Coutlee]

She lives at home with me, but she was too old to be with me while I was serving my sentence.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

I'll pass this over to you, Emmanuella. Go ahead.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Actually, I have more of a comment. I wanted to say that I think that much of the solution, based on what we've been hearing, is community building and having elders and people from within the community help a lot. Obviously the government needs to have more initiatives in that regard in order to solve problems before they begin, because it all stems from being taken away as a child and from their facing a lot of issues as children.

I just want to say to keep doing what you guys are doing. You guys are the strongest tools in your community. I hope you can encourage and empower more women to continue this movement to help your community thrive even more.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

There are three minutes left.

Go ahead, Pam.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thanks to all of you for being there, and thanks to my colleagues for sharing their time with me.

Claire, first I want to put on the record what a tremendous facility you run at Buffalo Sage, and what an incredible difference you are making in the lives of those women. I was really blessed to take part in a circle with Elder Vicky.

One of programs that one of the women talked about—I couldn't remember the name of it the other day—was the spirit of a warrior program. I understand it's not available in other CSC healing lodges. Could you tell us a little about it because I don't have much time? Also do you think it would be beneficial to provide it throughout Correctional Services?

[Claire Carefoot]

I think it would and it used to be and for some reason they cut it and brought in another program, and I'm not sure what the name of that program is. We provide that program. It gets into, how do I say, the guts of the pain, the colonialism, the trauma that these women have suffered, the generational trauma. This program goes to the heart of that. It really brings out the pain in these women. They talk about it. They get it out. It's a remarkable program. You wouldn't believe how these women come out of it. It's a long and very in-depth program.

The elders take them into it, and it's with culture and spiritualism throughout the whole 10 to 12 weeks. It's a long time, but it's a remarkable program.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

How much time do I have? I've got one minute.

One of the women I met at the Edmonton Institution for Women had been at Buffalo Sage. When she was out on release, she had a relapse with either drinking or drugs. I don't know which. Because of that, she was sent back to the institution. Do you think there should be some kind of medium measure there? If you mess up, and she fully admitted that she did, that means you're out. She loved Buffalo Sage, and now you've got a waiting list to get in. Do you think there should be some intermediate step between that?

[Claire Carefoot]

We don't just send women back. Believe me, we work with them.

We got a women the other day who was drinking, but it depends on what they do when they're drinking or using drugs. We've got children there, so we have to protect those children, and we have to protect the community. If a women is going to get drunk and is historically violent, she may have to go back there. We don't ever close the door on them. I will go back to visit them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Claire, I keep feeling as if I'm cutting you off today. I apologize.

[Claire Carefoot]

It's okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

We're now going to move over to Stephanie Kusie for seven minutes.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I want to thank each one of you for being here today and sharing your testimony with us. It's incredibly powerful.

Ruth ScalpLock, once communities experience trauma such as residential schools, what can be done, what types of programs and measures can be taken to prevent indigenous women from being criminalized? This is a deep question, a cultural question perhaps.

[Ruth ScalpLock]

For me, the way I look at it, I did talk about using the medicine wheel approach. If you're going to use this medicine wheel, it has to be a long process, because it all takes time to help an individual to find the Spirit. These programs shouldn't be just Band-Aid solutions. I have run into these kinds of programs over the years. They don't work.

We need something that's going to be long term. Maybe have a facility, a lodge, or a place in the community, a safe place for these women, and not just for the women, but for their children. It's so important. It has to be long term.

Have our elders be a part of the program. When you hire people, these individuals have to be healthy. You have to walk with these individuals. It takes a long time for these people to have trust in you, and you have to be sober, you have to be healthy, and as a person working in this field, I know that you have to have self-care, and you have to look after yourself.

I sure would like to see something in southern Alberta or even in Calgary. Like, I'm the founder of this women's shelter, Awo Taan. It's a shelter for women who flee family and domestic violence, but we need something that's going to really help them, especially to get reconnected. It's so important.

In my culture having a name, a Blackfoot name, is important. My Blackfoot name is more important than my English name. That's why, when I got that name, when we opened the shelter, that's why it's working today, because that spiritual foundation was given to me by my grandma. Whatever we do, I always say that, in native programs, you have to have that strong traditional foundation. Having the elders involved is how I look at something that's going to really help women who go to prison. There is nothing out here where they can go when they come home from jail, because I do feel for them.

I was in jail, too, a long time ago, and I know how it feels. You're so lost. You have good intentions in there, but when you come out, you come out like me, being an alcoholic. I had all these good intentions, but what did I do when I came out? I went back to the street and got drunk. There has to be something in place that's solid to help them.

Thank you.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Ruth.

It sounds, from what you're saying, that it's from both a personal perspective as well as a community perspective. I'm not certain how you—for lack of a better word—institutionalize that within a government program, but I certainly understand the spirit of what you're saying, that you have to transcend it and transmute it. As you said, or someone indicated, I have heard that before regarding the seven generations.

You're generation one, or maybe generation two, at most, so it's a long way to go.

When an indigenous woman commits a crime, what is the greatest adversity she faces going forward: access to adequate representation, access to healing lodges, or reintegration into the indigenous culture? Some of you mentioned previously that it's hard to be a part of the external culture outside of that.

Ruth ScalpLock, what would you say that would be? What is the greatest adversity going forward?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You have one minute to answer.