Status of Women Committee on Feb. 6th, 2018

[Ruth ScalpLock]

In a lot of cases, people in our community tend to label these women who go to prison. We need to support them. We really have to look at where they're coming from. With me, in my community, I know these young women who go to jail. I know their family background, and, number one, I believe in people. In my culture there's no such thing as...what's that favourite word for that? Anyway, I walk with these people. When they come to me, I always tell them, “You have so much potential. You can do it.” I also try to help them to communicate. Instead of lashing out in anger and with violence, I help these women to identify and express their feelings. Once they have trusted me, I go all the way to help them. I believe in them. I've been there. I look at my own personal experience.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much, Ruth.

We're going to move to our final seven minutes and Sheila Malcolmson.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses. We're going to use a lot of your work in our final report. We could have talked with you for hours.

I want to ask just only one questions, with thanks to Ruth Elwood Martin for assembling your amazing panel. It's so smart and it's really good to hear.

I'd just like to turn my seven minutes over to the three women who have been on the inside.

Mo, Odessa, and Chas, is there anything that would make your heart sing if you saw it in our final report, something that would let you know that we had either removed some barriers or else put some more supports in place? By this I mean things that if they'd been there when you were younger, you might have avoided prison in the first place. What's missing to keep indigenous women out of jail in the first place? It might be legal aid. It might be better, more sympathetic, police. It might be no child apprehensions, no more kids in care.

The floor is yours. Tell us. Give us your best advice.

[Chas Coutlee]

I think maybe something along the lines of restorative justice if a woman is getting in trouble with the criminal justice system, and perhaps some supports put in place, as opposed to them just going directly to prison, with their child apprehended. A lot of these women get stuck in a cycle of addiction. They don't have their child. That's painful. They're going to go and do more drugs when they get out because they don't have their child. They have all these hoops to jump through. We need supports in place to help them with what it is—some collective restorative justice is the best way I can explain it.

[Odessa Marchand]

Just to carry on with that, a lot of aboriginal women when they lose their child or they go into jail, they don't know their culture. If they have that while they go in there, they can start learning how to deal with why they're hurting. Like Ruth said, there are seven generations. I could be the fifth generation and I don't know that because I don't know what's hurting me inside. I think a lot of it has to do with learning about our culture and where we come from and how we can present that for our own well-being. Before when I was inside—and I'm still on parole today, and don't get much help.... If I reach out to Elder “Holy Cow”, then that's on my own. But I don't have anybody coming to say, “Odessa, how's it going? Do you want to do this? Do you want to do that?” I think when women get out of jail they should have that support there for being aboriginal.

[Mo Korchinski]

I never even knew there was an option. We're housing women in record numbers. Why are women in prison the fastest growing population? There was never an option for me to go to treatment or to get help. Instead, it was, “You're going to jail”. For women coming out, there's no place them to go. Even if they wanted to change, there's nowhere for them to go. There's no detox. There's no treatment. We need more support for healing, rather than just being incarcerated at the price we're charging. Like I said in my statement, fentanyl right now is an epidemic. Let's take some of that money and build some healing lodges and let's start healing some people. Thanks.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

We heard some witnesses earlier say that at the time the rules were changed and judges were no longer given discretion, they could no longer say, “If you do treatment, you can avoid jail”, or “You can serve your time on weekends, so you don't get separated from your kids”. We heard that was a big disruption.

Did any of you find yourself in jail because of that? Maybe the judge was sympathetic, but they just didn't have any leeway. Or did you hear stories about that from other women incarcerated with you?

[Odessa Marchand]

When I started my journey for my sentencing, I was on the Gladue report. I didn't really know anything about that. When I was in a facility, the elder at the time really didn't explain to me what a Gladue report was, and then later I found out what a Gladue actually is, that it's supposed to help me get time off my sentencing, but my Gladue report was.... There was supposed to be an aboriginal taking my Gladue report and there wasn't, and I feel it didn't help me one bit because my Gladue report wasn't what I said. There were mixed words in it.

I think that with Gladue reports, maybe people should take more time and look at them more seriously than they do. At the end of my sentence, I did a section 84 for aboriginal people, so people in my community are supposed to support me. Like I said in my statement, I've been three years out and I've never really seen anybody or what the section 84 had to offer me.

I just feel that for other people, if they get section 84, is that how it's going to look for them too? I wouldn't want another woman to go through what I went through, feeling like a failure and getting dropped. Where do I go for those? If I don't have an elder coming to see me weekly, or an aboriginal liaison at that point in time, I feel that when I'm asking for help, it's not getting to me.

It's hard for a person like me to even ask for help in the first place.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Did any of you have advocates who were trying to help you argue for a shorter sentence or better conditions? Did you have that kind of legal aid or help on the outside?

[Chas Coutlee]

No.

[Odessa Marchand]

No.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I'm really grateful to all the voices we've heard on the panel and to the elders especially, who are in support, and then the younger ones, who are giving us the real deal.

Thank you. We're going to use your words.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much. I do get the final word on this. Usually, I try to stay quiet, but today's panels have been absolutely exceptional and I'd really like to thank all of the women here today who have given us excellent insight.

Specifically, thank you very much to Mo, Elder Mary, Odessa, and Chas, for sharing your stories with us and everything you do. Those really do move you.

And, Ruth ScalpLock, thank you. Thanks for all of your kind words. I love your smile.

Today has been fantastic. Claire, thank you very much and I hope we could have panels like this every single day. We could carry on for hours.

Thank you very much, once again.

We're adjourned.