Status of Women Committee on March 9th, 2021

[Laura Addati]

Yes, absolutely. Some countries, such as Germany and Japan, have recognized the right to long-term care in their social security systems. This is considered a universal right, just like the right to child care, for instance. They may also be recognition of the universal right to quality care for seniors. Once those rights have been codified, the social security system can be oriented toward long-term leave, and so on.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Thank you.

We go now to Ms. Mathyssen for two and a half minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Yesterday there was the announcement on the women's economic task force, but what I've heard continually, and today as well from witnesses to this committee, is that we know the answers, what needs to happen. Your recommendations have come forward now.

To have yet another study, to put forward another task force instead of actually putting forward reasonable actions that we already know are in place, what do you think this will do? This question is for both witnesses.

[Jacqueline Neapole]

I agree. Women's organizations in particular have been working on these issues for decades and decades. The answers are here. We know what needs to be done. Women's organizations work with all sorts of women, different demographics of women. A lot of us are supported by our members, so there is an accountability and there's the strength of our collective analysis that women's organizations bring to conversations about economic recovery.

It's good to come up with concrete actions and have them together as a holistic.... There are groups that, say, work on child care, some that work on women in law. I do think we need to bring some of this together and have concrete actions. I agree there comes to be a point where studying the same issues for decades and decades can delay action, and I am concerned about that. I'm concerned that when COVID is over, austerity measures will be put in, no action will take place and we'll be back to normal.

I think it's a balance of getting it right, making sure the right people are at the table. Women's groups have to be at the table, because of the collective knowledge and expertise they bring. But, yes, let's get it right and let's do it.

[Laura Addati]

I would like to add the important contribution of the world of work with social partners, the ILO. I've been working intensively with the Canadian Labour Congress but also with Canadian employers' organizations. The labour movement has been pushing for universal child care but also fighting against gender-based violence in the workplace and the gender pay gap. I think it's really important to bring all these movements together, and use this pandemic really as—

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

I'm sorry again. That's the end of your time. This is so difficult as the chair.

I think we have time for two four-minute slots.

We'll start with Ms. Wong for four minutes.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Again, I'd like to thank both the panellists for shedding so much great light on a lot of very important issues. My question is on the role of business owners or employers.

We are now talking about economic recovery. That's probably the most important piece, because we all want to go back to work and not necessarily work from home. That could be an option now since this could be the norm.

When I was visiting England some years ago as the minister for seniors I was talking to a group called the Association for Carers—so caring for the carers. They had been able to talk to employers. I would like to hear from both of you on the international situation, on what other other countries are doing to support the unpaid care workers who need a good counsellor in their own workplace to support them. Very often their own colleagues will complain and say, “How come you're getting leave again? The job falls to me.”

I would like to hear from both of you, especially our friend from the ILO.

[Laura Addati]

Thank you very much.

There's been a growing business case for care policies. We've been documenting it as part of our research for the work we are doing for the UN. It's not just a matter of rights. It's also good for businesses for a number of reasons: preserving talent, retention, morale, improved business image, etc.

We also argued that it's important that businesses, recognizing these benefits, also play their roles as part of building social security systems that will integrate care needs as part of a collective answer to these issues. We have examples, for instance, from countries in Europe that were also employers and workers with the state, contributing in a tripartite way to services, to leave, to child care, to long-term care services provided through social security systems. This is also another way that can make sure that these services and leave provisions are also calibrated according to a worker's ability to pay. It's means-tested, and workers who have high incomes maybe can contribute more than those who have low incomes and for whom the service is free, but it's just the same service that is provided through the social security system. This is also a way to go, where employers also can play a part in the big sort of collective answer.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you very much.

My next question is related to that.

We touch a lot on low-income women who, really, are marginalized, but there are also high-income or middle-income women, professionals, who actually are also doing unpaid care work for their grandparents, their children, because they do care and they want to do it.

Something else to help them would be technology. Are there any other countries making use of technology to help these women?

[Laura Addati]

We have examples. Actually, we documented the case of Canada for Telecare as a good practice, so we believe that technology can help in reducing the drudgery in care work, but the human side of it will still remain the prevalent part.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Very good.

We'll go to Ms. Hutchings for four minutes.

[Gudie Hutchings, Liberal, Long Range Mountains, NL]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, both, for being here today and for the great discussion.

I'm going to ask you both two quick questions, and you'll only have a couple of minutes to answer, but remember that, for any of the questions that my colleagues have asked, you can send in some written responses to the clerk.

I'm from a very rural part of Canada. My colleagues hear me say that all the time. I have a riding bigger than Switzerland, with 200 beautiful, tiny communities. Can you share with us some of the differences between the unpaid work experiences in really rural and remote communities, as well as the reality of child care in really rural and remote communities?

We've heard a lot from many groups about how Canada should look at some form of guaranteed basic income. What are your recommendations on administering some sort of program like that? Many of our most vulnerable people don't have permanent housing or don't have a government ID. I would love your thoughts on that.

As I said, you have a couple of minutes, but please feel free to send in a written response.

Thank you again.

[Jacqueline Neapole]

With regard to the differences between urban and rural, yes, I definitely think there are significant differences. I think it is more difficult in some cases in rural areas for different reasons. You have a lack of services in a lot of rural areas, a lack of social infrastructure, so that's going to make it difficult for women to access any social infrastructure, if it's there.

There are also issues around transportation and mobility in rural areas, especially when you intersect that with income, so it's very difficult to get around in rural areas in the absence of public transit, for example. Even access to services becomes a larger challenge.

I do think it needs to be looked at.

There are also employment issues in a lot of rural and remote communities. I think all of those intersecting things make the experience different.

With that being said, I think the same challenges exist for women in rural and urban areas in terms of accessing child care and having those necessary supports for their lives. I do think they are different, and they may need different investments. They still are a part of the same issue. Even when you're looking at caring for aged seniors in rural or remote areas, the logistics of doing that can be more difficult even because of the lack of infrastructure.

[Gudie Hutchings, Liberal, Long Range Mountains, NL]

Ms. Addati, I'll go over to you for a few minutes.

Please send in some written responses, ladies.

[Laura Addati]

Sure.

I'll speak to the issue of a universal basic income. The ILO has always argued about the social protection system to provide this minimum for all residents in the country. By providing a system of benefits, and as the result of this tripartite discussion from all parties, it would build on the social needs and social contingencies.

I would like also to mention that from a care perspective, we believe in the combination of money, services and time. It's important, from a job generation perspective, to invest in quality public services, but also social infrastructure. We heard how important this is especially for rural areas. As for the composition, the design of a package, it would be money, services and time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

I want to thank our witnesses today.

You have been tremendous, and have provided very interesting testimony. Thank you for being with us, and as Ms. Hutchings said, if you want to send any comments to the clerk, we're happy to hear additional information.

[Jacqueline Neapole]

Thank you.

[Laura Addati]

Thank you, it was a pleasure.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Committee members, we're going to our in camera part of the meeting. The link has been sent to you, so I'll see you on the other side.

Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera]