Status of Women Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2020

[Vicky Smallman]

Maybe I could just reply quickly to that. That was an excellent question, and I think data is extremely important to help us shape a coherent policy response to a systemic problem. The general social survey that Statistics Canada conducts does analyze the time use. What you need is a time-use survey, but I do think that a sort of pre-pandemic and post-pandemic look at unpaid care or how Canadians use their time is extremely important. The data does exist to some extent; it just may not be taken as regularly as it should.

[Diana Sarosi]

This was really the impetus of why Oxfam Canada conducted the survey in June, because we felt there just wasn't enough data and understanding of how things have shifted throughout the pandemic. As I mentioned, the burden has definitely increased, but again, it hasn't been equally increased for men and women, so women do really feel like they're having the lion's share of these additional responsibilities.

Of course, that differs according to whether schools and child care spots are open or closed. Even that in itself is something that will need to be factored in.

[Dr. Saskia Sivananthan]

If I could add to that as well, we are conducting a national survey with caregivers to address exactly that same issue and to understand what has changed pre- and post-pandemic.

We are also conducting a national research scoping project to look at the administrative data and the health system data to understand how this has shifted and how the pandemic has also maybe shifted people's ability to access the health care system and the resources that they would need in home and community care. Of course, by that you would indirectly be able to measure the impact on caregivers, who then are having to make up for not having access.

This is an excellent question. We need to measure it appropriately to be able to drive the appropriate policies forward.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

The data are very important, but we must also think about providing help to people who do invisible work, especially caregivers. That means more support at home.

You raised the issue of the health care system. This week, the Bloc Québécois moved a motion to congratulate health care workers who have been working since the beginning of the pandemic, and to help the health care system, which would also help caregivers.

Why is this important?

National standards will not look after people, but wouldn't an increase to 35% in Canada health transfer to Quebec and the provinces give the health care system some breathing room, allow for more and better paid staff, and recognize the work of those who support caregivers every day?

I would like to hear what you have to say about the fact that our health care systems are underfunded in Canada.

[Vicky Smallman]

I would totally agree. Unless we invest in robust health care and other care systems, we're not going to be able to address the gaps that have been really exposed by this crisis.

You can't just provide funding. There also has to be a coherent strategy to ensure that we are expanding the system in ways that will help relieve the burden on unpaid caregivers—the invisible labour.

We need an expanded home care system. We need the kind of respite care that is available to help to relieve the pressure on family caregivers. We need better options. If we shift to seeing the need for care, whether it's health care, home care, care for persons with disabilities or child care, as a right rather than as an expense and a drain, then I think that's what we really need to be able to build the robust systems to help us into the future.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Very good. Now we will go to Ms. Mathyssen for six minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses.

This week we saw the announcement of the fiscal economic update. Also, previous members had discussed the caregiver credit. I find these to be half-measures, temporary measures. We know that money is being given to child care, but it's not what experts and stakeholders in the system have asked for—it's actually far less.

When there was an announcement for long-term care workers and increases, I believe the number that they were trying to achieve was 4,000. We heard that to provide the four hours of necessary care per day, Ontario alone would have to hire 10,000 additional health care supports and workers.

Diana had mentioned that while all this money is being put into place there don't seem to be strings attached to it. In terms of going forward, how we look at these long-term solutions and how we get into them, Ms. Smallman had talked about implementing them with that future focus, that long-term focus.

How would something like a universal child care act or national standards in an act that fell under the Canada Health Act ensure that universality and that fairness? How would that help build up those systems?

[Diana Sarosi]

That is actually something that the child care movement has been calling for for many years now—to actually legislate child care. I think that goes back to that point that care is a right, but also to shift our economic thinking around what is an investment and what is a cost. The benefits of a public child care system in Canada would be tremendous. It would generate government revenues up to $29 billion, therefore paying for itself. It would increase employment for 725,000 women in Canada and increase GDP by $100 billion a year in 10 years from now, which is how long it would take to set up such a system.

I think it's really time to stop thinking of these kinds of investments as a drain on the budget and see them as an investment that will help us tackle these issues systematically rather than trying to leave it to market forces or to individual benefactors.

[Dr. Saskia Sivananthan]

I would add to that as well.

I very much agree with the last witness that shifting our perspective of caregiving as value-adding and value-generating to the economy is crucial to how we would then be able to shape policies. From the dementia perspective, we currently have a national dementia strategy. However, it is not a fully funded national dementia strategy and it does still need to be implemented.

The proof will be in the pudding. It will be in how we implement the strategy that will help with setting the road map. We have to think about the implementation of that strategy. Where we will be able to support the invisible work and the caregiving that is occurring in the home, community care and the long-term care is by appropriately paying the personal support workers, compensating them and...the benefits that they need, and appropriately compensating and building a robust home and community care.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I also wanted to add that the previous witness had discussed wealth inequality. As New Democrats, we are consistently trying to work on that. We're trying to address and introduce a wealth tax and close tax loopholes and tax havens. The government seems slow to this.

We talked about the inequality that existed there in terms of how workers within the system are valued. Certainly they require more workers, but paying them more is certainly a big deal as well. The government had promised and hasn't delivered yet on a $15 federal minimum wage. They were also supposed to implement pay equity legislation that actually hasn't been acted on yet. How would those things also help women workers in all fields?

[Vicky Smallman]

I certainly feel quite strongly that we need to have the pay equity legislation enacted yesterday. For care workers, many of them are covered under provincial and territorial labour legislation, so we would need to have some legislative action there. However, federal leadership in raising the minimum wage and bringing in proactive pay equity is super important to helping usher in changes at the provincial and territorial level.

The way that we raise the wages and the way that we address the poor working conditions and the undervaluing of care workers and child care in health care, home care and long-term care is to really examine and have a coherent strategy. I do think back to the previous question about enshrining the right to care in legislation and connecting investments with it and recognizing in that law that quality care depends upon decent work, working conditions and wages for care workers. Uruguay did it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

That's the time for that one.

We're going into our second round of questioning with Ms. Shin, for five minutes.

[Nelly Shin, Conservative, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much.

I would like to thank all the witnesses who are here today to speak on an issue that is very important, especially during this COVID time where there are extra strains on women.

We're talking about a framework and a federal strategy. In order to understand what that course might look like, I would like to ask whether there are any statistics available about what has caused women to be care workers or unpaid care workers pre-COVID. For example, was it socio-economic reasons or is it a cultural expectation? Is it just personal volition because they want to be in that role, recognizing that there are some benefits they can miss out on, such as pension and retirement income? Are there any statistics that you can speak to on that?

It's for any of the witnesses.

[Vicky Smallman]

I'm not sure if statistics can get us into.... The ILO study I refer to is a global study, but the dynamic of the gender expectation that women provide unpaid care and the disproportionate numbers of women in the care workforce is well documented globally and in Canada as well.

The ILO study would be a really good place to start. There are also a number of Statistics Canada surveys and publications like "Women in Canada", which also get at this dynamic. The reality is that no matter what, all women provide unpaid care. The problem is that some women can afford to contract that to hired caregivers, whether domestic workers or other workers. Those workers are also undervalued and underpaid.

We have a bit of a dynamic there that has a disproportionate, negative impact on women's economic security and economic justice. It's not really about individual volition; this is a systemic problem that goes very deep in our society.

[Nelly Shin, Conservative, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you for that.

Seeing that COVID has created issues with interaction because of social distancing, what does respite support for caregiving women look like in this climate, and what can we do differently? What can the federal government do to help them get some rest and some breaks?

[Diana Sarosi]

I think a big part of that is a lack of paid sick leave for many workers in our economy. I talked about the double burden of care: paid work and unpaid work. If you can't take a day off from your work because you don't have paid sick leave, that absolutely adds to the stress and overwork that women are experiencing. Even something simple like that—that women have access to paid sick leave—would be a helpful first step.

[Nelly Shin, Conservative, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

[Dr. Saskia Sivananthan]

To add to that, for home and community care and respite care during COVID, particularly for caregivers of people living with dementia, we have been receiving an increased number of extremely distressed caregivers because they no longer have a break. They no longer have respite care. They don't have access to adult day programming. During COVID they can't access personal support workers who could come into their home and support them either. A lot of this also has to do with the increased caseloads that the home and community care staff themselves are now trying to manage because resourcing has been shifted to acute care or to long-term care.

Thank you for raising the question because again, it goes back to the implementation of a strategy. In the national dementia strategy, we talk a lot about home and community care, about appropriately implementing and supporting home and community care so you have enough hours provided in terms of respite to a caregiver, providing enough staff support and education and training so they can provide support in homes where people living with dementia need that support. This is where we need to focus.

[Nelly Shin, Conservative, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

[Diana Sarosi]

This is one of the reasons the child care sector is continuously struggling with this retention and hiring crisis. Because the working conditions are so poor, women just burn out. No benefits are available to them. It's one of the lowest paid and most precarious jobs in Canada. With those kinds of working conditions, it's very difficult for women to maintain their mental health.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

That's very good.

Now we're going to go to Ms. Dhillon for five minutes.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all our witnesses for being here, and all the work you do.

Before I begin, I'd just like to clarify that health care is a provincial responsibility and I think it's very important to make this correction.

The other thing is, I'd like to also say that our government is committed to and has committed itself to in-home care. According to studies and experts, it's very important that when people reach a certain age, they are able to continue living at home in the comfort of their home. It prolongs life. It helps make their health better and it keeps them mentally and emotionally strong.

We were caregivers to my grandmother. She had strokes and was bedridden and the entire family was helping. Even with the family helping, it was very difficult and very taxing emotionally, mentally and socially. When it came to work, we had to juggle our schedules, but we didn't want to put her in a home. It's cultural, too, I have to say. We don't put our elderly in homes. It was very difficult. She was almost 80 and bedridden. Listening to all of you and knowing what the people who are caregivers go through, my heart resounds with them.

I'd like to start with Ms. Sivananthan.

You mentioned before that a lot of ethnic women or people of colour are the ones who end up most, in these cases, diminished. Especially with COVID, what already was there has just become worse. I'd like to know from you, please, because we need to get to the root of the problem as well, why is this happening? Why are people of colour and indigenous people more vulnerable to COVID? What can we do in the future so this doesn't happen? Is there racism against them to begin with, or job discrimination where they have to, as you said, work at the LCBO? What is causing this level of society to be even lower on social or economic aspects? Please let us know, and take your time. Thank you.

[Dr. Saskia Sivananthan]

Thank you for that.

I appreciate your comments, particularly about caregiving and caregiving for your grandmother, because I think it speaks to that personal connection and understanding.

To your question about the racialized communities of women who are providing caregiving, you would have heard from the other witnesses as well that this is not only for caregiving when it comes to seniors or people living with dementia. It's across the board when it comes to caregiving. You see it for child care as well. There are very many reasons for why that is the way it is. Socio-economic status is certainly one of the contributing factors, and there are social factors that really contribute to it.

I think the underlying piece I would like to emphasize is that if we valued caregiving economically, and if we compensated for it appropriately, it should not and would not matter if it is racialized women. It would be that, even despite being racialized, you're being compensated appropriately for the skills you are bringing forward.

When it comes to dementia, people of colour, indigenous people and people from Black communities are at higher risk of developing dementia as well. I think the root cause I'd like us to go back to is that, again, caregiving adds value to the economy and that if we view it as such through that lens and drive policy that reflects this, the racialized nature of caregiving can be addressed as well.

[Diana Sarosi]

I could add to that. If you're trying to make a profit out of providing care, the only way you can really do that is by cutting wages. In care, it can't be substituted, automated and so on, so if you want to make a profit from that, you're cutting people's wages. That's what's been happening in this sector for many years by leaving it to market forces and competitive forces. That's why these public investments in care are so crucial to be able to maintain labour standards that ensure greater equality, no matter what racial identity you have.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Perfect. Thank you to both of you.

Ms. Smallman, would you like to add anything?