Status of Women Committee on March 21st, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

I'm calling this meeting to order.

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to meeting number 101 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on the Status of Women. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

Today we have witnesses both online and in the room. For those online, I'm going to remind you to put up your hand. Make sure your interpretation is set according to your choice. Also, if you are not speaking, please have your mike on mute. For the people in the room, ensure you choose French, English or floor. Those are your options. The last thing is to keep your earpiece away from the microphone. I also remind you that all questions should come through the chair.

We will be keeping a speaking list if there are any questions, and we'll contend with that.

Let's get back to business.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, November 27, 2023, the committee will resume its study on the implementation of a red dress alert.

Today we have two witnesses here in person and another online. From the National Family and Survivors Circle, we have Hilda Anderson-Pyrz, chair, and Keely.

I don't know your last name.

[Unknown 1 FEWO 101-, As an Individual]

Good afternoon, Madam Chair. My name is Keely Ten Fingers and I'm a technician with National Family and Survivors Circle Incorporated. I'm here as a support to Hilda.

Thank you for having us here today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much for coming and filling that role.

Online, you will find Sandra DeLaronde from Giganawenimaanaanig, which is an Ojibwa word.

I will be passing the floor over to our witnesses, with five minutes for each group. We'll be going online first to Sandra.

Sandra, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Sandra DeLaronde, Executive Director, Giganawenimaanaanig]

Madam Chair, when you say “Giganawenimaanaanig”, just imagine yourself canoeing down the Red River, which is where I am today. The waters aren't open yet, but they're getting there.

Thank you for this opportunity to present today on the red dress alert at the standing committee.

The safety, protection and well-being of indigenous women, girls and gender-diverse relatives are essential to creating a better country. The final report of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, “Reclaiming Power and Place”, outlined a central finding of genocide, and had 231 calls for justice that would create transformative change for indigenous women, girls and gender-diverse relatives.

It is critical that the red dress alert, or whatever you choose to name it, be implemented immediately. I, along with many of my colleagues who are at the table, held consultations over the winter to hear from community, distinctions-based representatives, political organizations and community-based organizations about what an alert system means, what it could look like and how it should or could be implemented.

What is clear is that an alert system must be co-developed and co-led by indigenous relatives. Beyond an alert, support to the community and to families of the missing must be in place. For people who are actually going to look for the missing, people who are going to support families during the process and people who will support those who have been located, there is a requirement for wraparound support. Each one of those functions also requires training to ensure that communities and families have the capacity to support one another.

The alert system, when it is implemented, should take into account regional disparities and very clearly have an accessible approach, under which technology, language and community are considered.

Indigenous people living in urban areas have been largely ignored, erased or undermined and have been silenced under the current distinctions-based approach. There must be respect for full inclusion of the urban indigenous population.

We in Giganawenimaanaanig have been working on a data project, which we call a story map. It clearly outlines that many of those who have gone missing or been murdered in our territory have come from communities but have relocated to urban environments for medical or education reasons or to escape poverty and violence. Many of these relatives have become vulnerable and have been targeted by perpetrators of violence. I could share many anecdotes that would illustrate the ongoing systemic violence. However, there isn't time.

It should be considered that many of our relatives are indeed internally displaced persons under the meaning of the UN refugee convention of 1951. In fact, we must provide support in a manner that acknowledges the human rights and international conventions of our relatives.

Meegwetch.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you.

I just want to add that, because her camera was off, I did not get a chance to introduce Charlene Lavallee, who is the president of the Association of Métis, Non and Status Indians Saskatchewan.

Charlene, I'll come back to you in five minutes, but thank you very much for joining us.

I'm now going to pass the floor over to Hilda. You have the floor for five minutes.

[Hilda Anderson-Pyrz, Chair, National Family and Survivors Circle]

Thank you.

Good afternoon, members of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women.

I am Hilda Anderson-Pyrz, chair of the National Family and Survivors Circle, a non-profit organization incorporated in April 2023, led by indigenous women and gender-diverse individuals who are impacted family members of missing and murdered indigenous women, girls and two-spirit and gender-diverse people, as well as survivors of gender- and race-based violence.

I respectfully recognize that our meeting today is taking place on the traditional unceded and unsurrendered territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Today, I stand with the MMIWG2S+ families, survivors and two-spirit and gender-diverse people whose resilience and advocacy have been critical in pushing forward the red dress alert initiative. I give my thanks to the federal government and MP Leah Gazan for their efforts toward the establishment and forthcoming implementation of the red dress alert. It is a reflection of decades of advocacy for transformative change and action.

The red dress alert is an essential tool for the protection of indigenous women, girls and two-spirit and gender-diverse people, representing a significant advancement in our response to the crisis. Our communities are confronted with the daily disappearances of indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQQIA+ people. It is not a reflection of choice but of a societal disregard for indigenous lives, making us targets for violence.

The urgency of these situations cannot be overstated. When an indigenous woman, girl or gender-diverse individual goes missing, immediate action is crucial in mobilizing information, resources and collaborative efforts to facilitate locating them safely.

The development and implementation of the red dress alert should be led by indigenous women and gender-diverse people and frontline indigenous organizations. Effective responses require listening to those directly affected, especially in remote areas like Nunavut, where limited connectivity poses additional challenges. Engagements in these communities are essential in gathering insights and guiding our actions.

The red dress alert, alongside comprehensive wraparound support services, aims to prevent and respond to these disappearances. These services must be rooted in indigenous ways of knowing, being and doing, and must be independent from political influence. It is critical that they uphold the fundamental human rights of indigenous women, girls and two-spirit and gender-diverse people in order for us to live with dignity and safety.

I call on all levels of government to support the red dress alert and its associated services, highlighting the need for prompt and impactful action, and investments in a dedicated alert system for the indigenous community.

In conclusion, I thank you for this opportunity. The implementation of the red dress alert is critical, not just as a policy measure but as a commitment to resolving the MMIWG2S+ national crisis without political obstruction. Our actions now can provide the opportunity for a secure, safer and more dignified future for indigenous women, girls and two-spirit and gender-diverse people.

Ekosi. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

We're now going online.

Charlene, you have five minutes. When you see me start to move my arms, your time is over.

[Charlene Lavallee, President, Association of Métis, Non and Status Indians Saskatchewan]

Hello. My name is Charlene Lavallee. I'm the president of the Association of Métis, Non and Status Indians Saskatchewan.

We have community charters across the province in several different areas on the northwest side of Saskatchewan, which is very remote, and in northeast Saskatchewan, which is even more remote. Then, if we move into our urban centres, we cover all the urban centres in Saskatchewan.

Saskatchewan includes in its treaty territory treaties 8, 10, 6, 7, 4, 2 and 5. Saskatchewan is also the home of the Métis.

AMNSIS is not part of the distinctions-based groups. We are an organization under the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples. We have been involved with the MMIWG national round table since 2016. Up until February of this year, we were involved. Then there was a meeting this February that we were not invited to attend personally.

With regard to the red dress alert, I'd like to thank MP Leah Gazan for putting this forward. I listened in on the communication on Tuesday. It was more about the processes of an alert system, and it was really interesting to hear how quickly it could be onboarded and started.

One of the hardest things that has happened for MMIWG has been Bill C-18. Many of our people get their news from social media. News not being allowed any longer on social media has led to a large void in sharing information about people who have recently gone missing.

There are a couple of things I'd like to touch on. This red dress alert and everything attached to MMIWG need to be indigenous-led and need to include all indigenous people in Canada. The current distinctions-based policy identifying organizations is unconstitutional. The Constitution of Canada mentions, in section 35, our first nations, Inuit and Métis. The Daniels decision also included non-status peoples in section 35. Section 35 does not mention the AFN, the ITK and the MNC.

Right now, the distinctions-based approach is the approach this government is using. It's leaving out all the non-status peoples, and it takes away my freedom of choice, which I am supposed to have under the Charter of Rights and under UNDRIP. It is choosing to only work with certain groups. Again, indigenous people, primarily women, are being left out of processes that could save their lives.

All aspects of the MMIWG calls for justice need to be inclusive of all indigenous groups. They should not be political, and the processes need to be nationally streamlined by indigenous organizations.

Policing has not always worked in favour of vulnerable indigenous people, and neither have government agencies, like social workers. When considering all of these factors, we have always said that policing has been a big part of the problem. I think those things need to be heard.

Are you waving your hand at me?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Yes, Charlene, I am.

[Charlene Lavallee]

It was a shot of the whole room, so I was just making sure.

That would be what I have to say at this point.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much for your testimony so far.

We'll be going around the room. Each party will have six minutes to ask their first round of questions, and then we'll go into our second round.

I'm going to give the floor over to Michelle Ferreri for her first six minutes.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thanks, Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here. It's certainly an important study that also has an impact on my riding of Peterborough—Kawartha and across this country.

I would like to hear from all of you. The point of this study is to get a handle on how we best roll this out and how to be most efficient. We had a phenomenal witness here this week who was a rock star, and she's doing it in Nova Scotia.

I'm sorry; her first name has left me.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

It's Jennifer.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Yes, it's Jennifer. She was incredible. She had some really great points.

We hear the same thing from a lot of the witnesses: “indigenous-led” and “for indigenous, by indigenous”, which I think are critical. She didn't support the idea of this being government-run.

I'll start with Hilda, if I can, and then ask the other witnesses to answer too.

How do you see this? Do you see it independent of each location? We have many indigenous women and girls living off reserve and living in urban centres. How do you see it rolled out and implemented? Is it a national program?

[Hilda Anderson-Pyrz]

First of all, I want to amplify that this a national crisis, so I see it rolling out at a national level, to be fully supported. Everybody should be part of it and develop it collectively.

One of the biggest challenges we see in working on the issue of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls is the issue of borders and jurisdiction. That often hinders responses, so I think it has to be national in scope and there has to be a national response. It also has to be equitably resourced to ensure that it is successfully implemented and that regardless of where you live and which community you're from, you're able to access the system.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Before I get the other witnesses to answer, to that point, it was Jennifer who said that she was the kind of person who just did it. She talked about bureaucracy. Sometimes you have these great ideas and nothing happens because after everybody sits around the table and says they sound great, everybody walks away and there's no action tied to them because there's not one leader. How do we prevent bureaucracy in something like this?

I'm happy to hear the other witnesses is they want to chime in. That is the biggest hurdle I see in a lot of these things, because I can't think of anybody who would dispute having this alert in place to save lives.

[Hilda Anderson-Pyrz]

I think, ultimately, there has to be an accountability mechanism in place to ensure there's transformative action and a commitment to ensure the red dress alert is implemented. Ultimately, inaction results in the continuance of the disappearances and murders of indigenous women, girls and two-spirt and gender-diverse people.

I really think that ethically we have to look at the urgency for commitment and action, because our lives depend upon it.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Do any of the other witnesses want to comment?

Charlene, do you want to chime in?

[Charlene Lavallee]

I think this is very urgent. The calls for justice were completed. It would be interesting to know how many more women have gone missing or were murdered since the completion of the action plan. It's a daily thing, and for the families who have lost family members, it's too late.

It's very important, and I agree that it needs to be at the national level with provincial entities working together instead of everybody working in separate little silos. This way the information is shared across all jurisdictions.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

To Sandra, what I'm really asking, to get to the nuts and bolts, is how we make it national but give autonomy and not have government interfere with it.

[Sandra DeLaronde]

I think there is a place for government in all of this. We know historically, and even in contemporary times, that for things to move in the community, it has been indigenous women with no support who have created change and maintained change in our communities.

We have been carrying these issues for at least the last 50 years on our own, and now we need government, the bureaucracy, to support this change, because we can't do it on our own, obviously. When rules, policies and laws don't change, and the number of those who go missing and murdered continues to increase, we're not able to do this on our own. We need support from governments, bureaucracies, to invest in change and invest in safety.

We can start the alert now—and we must start it now—because women go missing. Summer for many people is a time of rest and respite, but those of us on the ground know that the number of relatives who go missing or are murdered increases with the temperature.

We can do that. People who want to talk some more can talk some more and work out whatever details or jurisdictional wrangling they may have, but we have to get it done now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

We're now moving to Emmanuella Lambropoulos, who has the floor for six minutes.

Go ahead.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you.

I want to start by thanking all of our witnesses for their great testimony and for being here to answer some questions on this very important study brought forward by Leah Gazan, who is a big advocate of this and talks about it very often, and makes sure that we're talking about it here.

My first question is going to Charlene, because you were the last one to testify and this one is top of mind for me.

You mentioned that policing is part of the problem, that law enforcement hasn't always sided with vulnerable indigenous women, and I agree, of course. I'm wondering what changes you think can be made to improve that situation and to improve collaboration with the police to make the red dress alert something the police are helpful with.

[Charlene Lavallee]

Well, ultimately, our police services are overworked as it is, and lots of times when you're dealing with any issue of somebody missing, it takes a lot more time, effort and report processing than the police are able to put in.

It could always start with an organization outside the police. It could start with an organization taking the information and working with the family, and then the agency notifying the police and going from there.

This isn't a criminal offence. At that point, it's not a criminal incident, so it doesn't necessarily have to have police involvement right from the get-go. We all recall two years ago that during a check on the wellness of somebody, a young indigenous woman was killed. Sometimes it's simple things like that. We have a stigma when it comes to policing and police officers, and sometimes it just de-escalates the whole situation when somebody from their own community is checking on them rather than a police officer.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

The trust is what's obviously missing, and it would be better if they were only involved when they need to be.