Status of Women Committee on April 18th, 2024

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you for the question, Ms. Larouche.

In budget 2024, as you rightly pointed out, there is $1.3 million allocated, I believe, over three years to start the work. As I indicated earlier, we have started discussions with some of our provincial and territorial colleagues. We have been working over the last year or so in the consultation phase. We have a “what we heard” report, and we are ready to move to the next phase of this, which is codevelopment and continuous engagement. As we hone in on a region, a territory or a province or two where we can start implementing this, we will be able to continue to monitor and see how it works.

I think the first step of this is to look at a microcosm of the country and to look at several regions, whether that's Regina, Vancouver, part of Vancouver or northern British Columbia. I think that's the phase we're in. I believe this funding will allow us to do that.

From a technical perspective, I don't know, Krista or Valerie, if you want to add to this.

[Krista Apse]

Chair, the only thing I would add is that we need the time to get this right, while understanding that there's an urgency to do so.

From a technical perspective the reason why we want to do this on a regional basis first, and then broader, is to make sure that we can get the local considerations right, as we've heard different things across the country.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I understand. You are saying that it is moving forward and you have reached the codevelopment phase. What concerns me, however, is that in its budgets, the government announces investments with great fanfare, to carry out initiatives, but the money never makes it onto the ground. We see this too often, particularly when it comes to indigenous affairs.

My colleague who works on the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs reminds us of this regularly, within our party, and I am sure that my colleague could say the same thing. The money is shown in the budget and it looks good, but too often it stays in the government's coffers and is not used on the ground to implement concrete measures that are going to improve people's lives.

In the case that concerns us, it is women who are dying, murdered women and girls, Minister.

How are you going to make sure that this money does not stay in the government's coffers? I would point out again that this is an investment spread over three years and the next election will take place by that time, Minister. We can almost call this an election promise.

How are you going to make sure that this is not an election promise and the money shown in the budget will be used concretely on the ground as fast as possible, to ensure that this alert, which indigenous communities are asking for in memory of missing and murdered women, is implemented?

We hope that this alert will be created, so that those women will have not died in vain.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

I'm going to briefly answer this and ask the deputy minister to continue.

What's unique about this situation is that a lot of work has already been done. We're not actually starting after the budget decision. We've done an extensive amount of work over the last several months, almost a year, in terms of engagement, and whether in a formal sense or the 16 engagement sessions that took place in different regions, there have been distinctions-based conversations.

In every region I visit, I usually meet with groups who are working on MMIWG2S+, and I continue to do that engagement. We have come far but there's still some technical issues to iron out as well as the core development piece. Up until now, we were not sure what the next phase would be. The decision really does allow us to move forward.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Before you answer, Ms. Gideon, I would like to ask you a question.

You said that you wanted to take local considerations into account. However, are you going to make sure that this alert will be implemented by and for the indigenous communities and they will be part of the process? That is what they have requested.

[Valerie Gideon, Deputy Minister, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs]

I can assure you that the funds we have received will go entirely to the partners. There is no funding for the government's internal activities.

In addition, we have done a lot of research on local models that already exist, from which we have learned a lot of lessons. There is no doubt that an initiative is more effective when communities are stakeholders in implementing it and they have confidence in it.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Ms. Gazan, you have six minutes as well.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you.

I'd like to welcome you to our committee.

As you can see the solidarity around this table is pretty fierce. I want to let you know that my abstention was in no way a reflection of you. That's important. I want you to feel welcome here, but our solidarity is pretty fierce.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I also wanted to thank you, Minister. I know that you've prioritized MMIWG. That doesn't mean that you're not in the hot seat today.

I thank Pam across the way for starting the discussion with me. Quite frankly, all members of this committee have been tremendous in their support, not just on this study but on other studies to really support justice for indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQQIA+ people around the country. It's very touching. It shows that we can work across party lines to advance human rights in this country. I want to thank the committee for that as well.

I saw the budget. I have to say, Minister, that I was quite taken aback. I'm going to share quickly why, and I'd like a response.

The budget included $1.3 million over three years, knowing that we are in the process of an election cycle and knowing that this is timely. I was happy to see that there was $20 million put in place to search the landfill. I feel relieved for the families. Again, that's an action that has to happen, like the red dress alert, after women's lives have been taken.

The budget included $47 million to deal with the auto theft problem. Although I know that the auto theft problem is really tremendous in this country, the message is very clear that this country cares more about cars than it does indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQQIA+ people.

I'm wondering why there weren't more dollars put in specifically in the areas of prevention to deal with what has been acknowledged by your government and leader as an ongoing genocide.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you.

I'll call you Leah, if that's okay.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Yes.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

I thank you for the question. I know we've had some conversations about this leading up to the budget. Your concerns are noted, and I acknowledge them.

On the report of MMIWG and the 231 calls for justice, they are quite large and vast. There is a preventative component and a supportive component. The preventative component goes to the core of the social determinants of health.

We have continued investments on housing. I recognize that there are still gaps. I think it's critical. There are issues around emergency shelters. Emergency shelters and transitional homes have $27 million. I think transitional homes on reserves are a critical point here. There's over $1 billion for health care, including mental health and uninsured benefits like medical travel and so on, like the opioid crisis—

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Just to.... Okay. I'll let you finish.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

I can frame it as a much broader issue. We can't just look at the two items and say, “This is it.” This is a much broader level of investment. In fact, it totals over $9 billion. It goes to the core of many of the relationships that—

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Sure, but in all fairness, Minister, that's over a number of years.

I have to say that the AFN came out yesterday commenting on the lack of investment in housing. We know there's a direct relationship between women going missing and housing.

I've put forward a private member's bill that's coming up for second reading to put in place a guaranteed livable basic income. We know women's organizations that have come in front of the committee have indicated that a guaranteed livable basic income is the most critical initiative to really tackle gender-based violence. As you know, call to action 4.5 of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls calls for exactly that. Your government has committed to implementing all of the calls to action that it has control over.

I'm wondering if you're going to live up to your promise and support my bill for a guaranteed livable basic income.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

The best way I can commit to that, Leah, is to say that I will work with you, as always. I will work to ensure that we have the supports that are necessary and the additional investments that are required to ensure that indigenous women are not in vulnerable situations.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I appreciate that, but it calls specifically for a guaranteed livable basic income. It doesn't call for other investments. It calls for amending our current social safety net to save lives and to give women options, so that they don't have to stay in violent situations or put themselves in precarious situations that are violent.

My bill is coming up, and I'm hoping that we can at least get it to study. I'm hoping we can all work together to keep our promise and hold up those calls for justice, which include 4.5.

I'm getting cut off. I never looked at Karen because she would let me go on, so I'll do the same with you.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Perfect. If you just want to wrap up...or are you good?

Regarding time, for those who don't peek up at me, we do have to make some changes.

To have everyone have a voice in the second round, Dominique, instead of five minutes, you and Ms. Hepfner will both have four. Then we'll have one and a half, and one and a half.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Ms. Vien, you have the floor for four minutes.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and welcome to the committee.

I also want to recognize Ms. Vecchio. We are very good friends on this side.

I am a bit disappointed, even very disappointed, Minister.

Normally, Mr. Serré also participates in this kind of study. Today, however, we are all women here and we all agree that the red dress alert has to be implemented.

The government announced the meagre sum of $1.3 million in the budget. You will tell me that is better than nothing, but it is not much.

I did not really understand Ms. Gideon's answer a little earlier, when she said that you had not invested too much money because the investments were coming from partners. You can explain all that to us, but I am frankly disappointed.

I do not understand why, as we are speaking, you do not yet have a plan for implementing the alert.

If memory serves, the government held its first round table in January 2023. You have held only one meeting, and we do not know when the next one will be. You can explain all that to us.

The big question I am asking myself right now is whether you are encountering difficulties and resistance in provinces or territories or within organizations that would not approve the project.

Very sincerely, given everything there is right now, whether it be Amber alerts, grey alerts, or the experiences people have had more or less everywhere in Canada that we have been told about, what are you waiting for, to get moving and put this project in place?

It is not complicated. There are cell phones, there is television, there are programs, we have the CRTC, the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission.

What is needed is political will. Do you have the political will, Minister?

We are very disappointed.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you for your questions and comments, Ms. Vien.

I appreciate the passion here. This is frustrating in the sense of how long it's taking to move forward, but I can assure you that, since 2023, we've had two round tables. In fact, we had a second round table this February. We brought together all the provinces, and we had best practices that were shared by the provinces of Alberta and British Columbia, and by the Yukon territory.

A number of ministers attended, including the deputy minister from Quebec. I believe there is general consensus on the need for a red dress alert system. That is also what we heard in the engagements we had. There were 16 of them across Canada, in a formal way, and a dozen or so informally, by myself. We have been working diligently on this, and we will continue to do that. The challenge is that I don't believe there's a consensus in terms of some of the—

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

What difficulties are you encountering?

What is the wrench that is being thrown in your works? What is it that is not working?