Status of Women Committee on April 18th, 2024

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

I can give you one concrete example.

One challenge we have is that many of our public alerting systems are rooted in law enforcement, with law enforcement as the lead provider of those alerts. As a result, the challenge that I'm facing and the resistance that I'm facing, somewhat, from many grassroots indigenous women's organizations and from women who have been working on this for many years, is an endemic distrust of police. It is historical, and in many ways it is linked to the legacy of colonialism.

Finding the appropriate balance and the bridge that I think is required to build that trust, so that we not only rely on police but also have an alternate system, will take time, Madame Vien. It's not something that we can necessarily just bypass

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you, Minister.

MP Hepfner, please go ahead.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you.

I would also like to take a minute to explain why I could not support the election of the current chair. It is not personal at all—and I hope you don't take it that way—but I think some of my colleagues and I were really devastated by what happened to Karen Vecchio.

I don't know why she was thrown off this committee, but it feels like she was thrown under the bus. It feels like it's direction from the Conservative leader to keep committees from working collaboratively because that is exactly what we have been doing at this committee.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I have a point of order. Let's keep to the topic of the red dress alert.

You're completely making assumptions about the Conservative Party. If you want to congratulate Karen, go ahead and do it, but don't go after the Conservative Party on this. Let's keep it to Karen, our respect for her and the respect we have for the new chair.

Thank you.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

That's not a point of order, and I hope you can give me back my time on that, Chair.

The point is that Karen Vecchio knew these issues. She has worked so hard for so many years. She worked with her whole heart, and we have been able to accomplish great things at this committee. I really hope we can continue being collaborative and accomplish things like this red dress study, because it's important.

With that, Minister and officials, thank you for being here with us today. We're all a little out of sorts—

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I'm sorry, but I have a point of order, Chair.

The language that Ms. Ferreri just used is completely inappropriate in committee.

I don't know if you heard her, but I would appreciate it if she would retract what she just said.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

MP Ferreri, would you like to speak to that?

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Did anyone hear what I said? Is that on the record?

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I certainly heard it across the room, Michelle.

Do you want me to repeat it for you?

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

MP Ferreri, would you like to retract what you said?

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I would like to move forward with this red dress alert study. If I've offended Ms. Damoff, I retract what I said.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

MP Hepfner, please go ahead.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you.

What we've been hearing at this committee is that Pelmorex and the Weather Network have a system in place that could be adapted to a red dress alert. The problem is that we want this red dress system to be indigenous-led, and the key point of that is the threshold as to when the alert is issued. Who makes that decision? Who looks into whether an alert should be sent out, and whether it's someone who truly is at risk or maybe someone who doesn't want to be found?

Collaboratively, in some of the different discussions, it has evolved into a regional approach in that there might be regional bodies of indigenous women who oversee the process. Rather than working with police services to set the threshold and take next steps, it would go to a body of indigenous leaders to make those decisions.

I'm not sure if it would be better for the officials or for the minister to answer that, but maybe you can weigh in on how you envision that sort of system working.

[Valerie Gideon]

One of the examples we've seen is an emergency alert system that nations in the Union of Nova Scotia Mi'kmaq, in Cape Breton, have put in place. They use that alert system for missing persons, for weather and for emergency situations. They have worked with a technology company in order to be able to design that.

That's at the level of an island with several communities, but you could take a model like that and replicate it at a provincial level.

We're not presuming that no one will want to work with law enforcement, but we wouldn't want a system that we would impose at the national level. That would make the assumption that everyone would have trust in and collaboration with law enforcement. That's a partnership that needs to be built.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

We know that law enforcement has to be involved at certain points—many of our witnesses have said that—but on the point of the threshold, who's making these decisions? I think that is key.

Can you comment on that?

[Krista Apse]

Chair, I'll use another example.

In Washington state, an important element of the way they work is with an indigenous liaison person, who can work with the families of the person who has gone missing and play that important role of trust with local law enforcement.

There are a number of different ways to do that, and part of what we need to do now is land on the best way with partners in terms of what their needs are and what would result in trust in the system.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

You only have about 30 seconds left, so could you wrap it up?

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Okay.

In your view—you're the experts and the officials—what would be the best way to roll out this system quickly and effectively, ensuring that there's indigenous leadership? How do you see the best way of moving forward?

[Valerie Gideon]

I think what the minister has signalled is that we do have some interested provinces that also see the benefit of doing that in their jurisdiction. Our advice is to proceed initially with a regional approach to work out what the possibilities are, and then bring that back to a national table with partners to reflect on how that has gone and be able to move forward in a larger way.

We have experienced where we have done this. For example, the Hope for Wellness helpline is an example of something that has existed for some time and has received some very positive feedback over time from first nations and from other indigenous peoples. It is a model that was looked at in the context of a partnership advisory committee many years ago. We've built upon that now, and it actually supports the MMIWG2S+ survivors and families. It has expanded its scope and mandate.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you, Ms. Gideon.

MP Larouche, you have 1.5 minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to welcome you again.

Minister, we have heard about the disappointment caused in response to the announcement in the budget of the funding allocated for implementing the red dress alert. The funding is spread out over time and is probably insufficient. As well, it has become an election promise, when it is needed now. I talked about this the last time I had the floor.

I would now like to focus on the officials and the experience they looked into, in the United States, in Washington or California.

I know that the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness has done studies on the situation of indigenous women and girls.

Have you had an opportunity to look into the experiences and recommendations in earlier reports by other committees that might be relevant when it comes to the red dress alert?

Most importantly, have you made sure that those recommendations are going to be implemented as quickly as possible? We have to do it in memory of the missing or murdered women and girls.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

You have 30 seconds.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Due to the timeline, I'll take that question and acknowledge that we have looked at many jurisdictions that have systems in place, and we are continuing to look at them.

We've also been engaging with different regional players and partners, and the experiences are different. The experiences even with law enforcement are different. For us, it's continuous learning because, at the end of the day, we don't want to do up a system that doesn't have the trust and that isn't being used. Ultimately, we want to be able to save lives, and that will require us to do the work properly.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Trust has to be rebuilt, Minister.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

MP Gazan, you have 1.5 minutes.