Status of Women Committee on April 1st, 2022

[Marci Ien, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

We are considering all approaches, Jenny, and that's what I will say at this time.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

All right. I urge you, Minister, to take significant action on this. Talking about it is actually of no help for the people. What we need is for the government to implement the bill.

I would urge the minister to take that action and to be a real champion for women, especially women who are fleeing violence.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You have 10 seconds to reply, Minister, just quickly.

[Marci Ien, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

I was just going to say that the government and I, as minister, have demonstrated leadership.

As I said, this is the bane of my existence. I want to serve in this capacity well, as does my team, and we take all of this very seriously. Any kind of comment to the contrary is absolutely not true.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

We are now going into our third round. It will be five minutes for both Shelby and Pam.

Oh, golly gee, I'm sorry. Michelle Ferreri, how about you get on there?

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

It's Friday afternoon at 1:50, sorry.

Michelle, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you.

Minister, it's a pleasure to finally meet you. I wish we were meeting in different circumstances. I think we have some mutual friends, and I have a lot of respect for what you're doing and for a lot of what you said. I wish we had two hours, to be honest with you, because this really is a non-partisan issue in so many regards, and I can see your effort. I can see your passion, and I can see your authenticity. I really value that, and I appreciate it today.

I want to talk a little about two things, if I can. We've seen a real shift. I loved your comment that the eagle can't fly with one wing. I'm very interested in what we're doing for our young boys and men, and how we're changing that. We've seen some incredible growth with women and opportunities, like yourself being a female minister of colour. It's amazing.

We see women who are now having these opportunities, but our men have not had an opportunity to transition with that. We had clearly defined gender-based roles for years, for decades. We look at the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s models of pink jobs versus blue jobs, and now we have men who sometimes don't know where they fit as a result of a strong, powerful woman, and that can often translate into perhaps coercive control or an unhealthy relationship.

What do you think would be an effective strategy to teach our youth about knowing what your place is? It really comes down to men maybe not feeling like they have a place if the woman is now providing the money, if the woman is now doing these things. What can we do in terms of policy and culture to help men know that they are still very important as we all evolve?

[Marci Ien, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Michelle, thanks so much for the question, and it's great to see you, albeit virtually.

This is really important. “The eagle can't fly with one wing” is just that, and it gets to the heart of it. We have to call men and boys in and make sure that they are at the table and that we are engaging in conversation and listening and understanding.

I'm going to point again to my indigenous friend in Iqaluit, who said that this is where she's centring her work, because so many women have been abused. So many are fleeing intimate partner violence. She wants to get to the root of it, and that means peeling back the layers of men themselves who are perpetuating this violence but who have gone through violent situations themselves. They've gone through horrendous things, whether they are residential school survivors who themselves have families and perpetuate violence because they saw violence.... It's all of these things. Violence begets violence, so it's about calling the men and boys in. It's listening. It's not just speaking to them and talking at them. It's listening to them.

Since 2015, WAGE has provided $16 million to over 40 organizations that do just that. They engage men. They engage boys, and they look at gender-based violence protection.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

That's great, and I loved your comment that money isn't the only thing. I was so glad to hear you say that, because it is such a mosaic. I know with your background, we cannot.... You talked about social media and influence. I think it's going to be really critical that we change culture and thinking so that roles aren't defined.

I want to go to a very important topic right now, ex-defence chief Jonathan Vance, a very big issue we've come across. Sabrina Maddeaux published an article, and she's saying that this can't even be described as a slap on the wrist, because he “was allowed to walk away from his sole criminal charge” because he was a man of good character. I want to go to the point where it said, “not because of a lack of evidence, but because Vance was literally too powerful to be held accountable”.

How do we shift that, not just in the military, but in politics and in all facets? What can we do in terms of policy to make sure this doesn't ever happen again?

[Marci Ien, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

You're talk about changing an entire system.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Yes.

[Marci Ien, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

An entire system isn't going to change overnight, as you know, Michelle, but there are most certainly things we can do.

As directed in my mandate that came out in December 2021, I continue to work very closely with the Minister of National Defence to end discrimination and sexual misconduct in all forms of gender-based violence in the military.

Specifically, though, General Vance's guilty plea and subsequent sentencing are part of an individual criminal case about an individual defendant. Our responsibility and commitment as a government is to continue to build an institution where everyone can work with the respect and protections they need to do their jobs. We want more women stepping up and wanting to serve, and we want them to be able to do that in a safe environment and feel confident that they can go to work without being harassed in any way.

That is our most basic responsibility, and I can tell you that it's Minister Anand's utmost priority. She works to end any kind of discrimination—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Minister, we're way over time.

[Marci Ien, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

I'm so sorry. I'm such a talker.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

It's you versus me. I think we got this.

[Marci Ien, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Michelle, it's a great question, and I would love to engage further on this. We can maybe set a time outside of committee to talk more about this.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

For our final round, we're going to pass it over to Pam Damoff.

Pam, you have five minutes.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you so much, Chair, and to everyone here.

Minister Ien, thank you for being here and for the work you're doing.

I have long said that firearm violence should be treated as a public health issue. We need to consider the burden of injury from firearm deaths. This includes guns and gangs, which get all the press, but it also includes suicides, which make up over 75% of firearm deaths, and domestic violence.

In 2016, the Ontario coroner's death review panel said that 26% of deaths in Ontario that related to intimate partner violence involved a firearm. I've spoken to them and that number is higher today. A peer-reviewed study was done in rural New Brunswick and P.E.I., and it found that two-thirds of the women whose homes had firearms said that knowing firearms were present made them fearful for their safety and well-being, and 70% said that it affected their decisions regarding whether to tell others or seek help for the abuse they received.

I wonder, Minister, if you could comment on what we need to do when it comes to firearms, because I think it's an aspect that often gets overlooked in conversations about this.

[Marci Ien, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

You're absolutely right, Pam. It's about collaborating with my colleagues on this very important question, as well—and I do, with the public safety minister, the honourable Marco Mendicino. We talk often about this.

I represent Toronto Centre. I see a lot of firearms issues. I see a lot of gun violence. A lot of that gun violence is perpetuated against women and, sadly, girls more than I would like or am ever comfortable with.

Shootings are regularly the most commonly reported means of killing women and girls in Canada. It is as simple as that. From the Canadian Femicide Observatory's annual report, we know that for every victim of femicide, there are many more who have physically survived, but who are struggling mentally. They have gone through such trauma, layered trauma, that is still with them. It stays with them and it will impact them for life.

As the minister responsible for the development of the 10-year national action plan to end gender-based violence, I know that coercive control is a big part of this, too, and we see this. Law enforcement and our courts are not always educated on coercive control. We know that it puts more women at risk, so we must move forward with implementing Bill C-71, not only as a tool to strengthen our gun control laws, but as a way to prevent gun violence and domestic violence.

Might I just add this note? When I became the minister responsible for women and gender equality and youth, the first question I asked as Minister for Youth was, “How young? How do we characterize 'youth'?” I was told, I think, 15 to 29, and I said that's far too late. It's far too late for the kids on my streets. It's far too late for many kids across this country. We have to get to them sooner.

The bottom line is that a lot of kids are not seeing themselves. They're not seeing themselves in the education system. They're not seeing themselves as being part of society and being included. How do they get power? How do they take that back? Sometimes it's holding a gun. Sometimes it's perpetuating violence against others.

For me, it's things like mentoring and getting kids when they're younger. We say all the time, “If we can see her, we can be her” or “If you can see it, you can be it.” That means something. Showing kids they can attain goals and be who they need to be prevents the violence we see later. There is a correlation.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I have only about a minute left.

Earlier you mentioned child care, so I'm switching gears a bit. This committee did an outstanding study in 2018 on the economic security of women. The number one issue was access to universal affordable child care. I'm one of those women. I would not have gone back to work had I not had a boss who was very generous, both financially and with time.

I wonder, in 45 seconds, if you could expand a bit on the importance of the child care program that is now universal across the country.

[Marci Ien, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

You were one of those women, and I was one of those women. However, in my case, in the field of journalism, you don't plan on having kids any time soon because they're going to need you to be in a bureau for a while. These are the kinds of things that impact us as women.

This is seminal. This is huge. This means, with universal child care, that women and families across this country no longer have to make hard choices: Do I keep the lights on in the house or do I pay for child care? Can I go back to work or do I stay at home with my kids, because that's more financially feasible? This is huge. This is going to change the way that women at all levels see themselves and are able to contribute to society in a very different way.

I'm so sorry, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

It's okay, Minister. Thank you so much.

On behalf of the committee, I would really like to thank the minister for being here today.

To Alia and Lisa, thank you so much. It's part of the great work.

We are going to suspend for about 30 seconds so the next panel can get online.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Welcome back, everybody.

We are now going to welcome our second panel.

For our second panel, I would like to welcome Mercy Lawluvi, executive director of Immigrant Women Services Ottawa. From L'R des centres de femmes du Québec, we have Stéphanie Vallée, co-coordinator. From the Peterborough Police Service, we have Alice Czitrom, who is the coordinator of victim services, and Emily Jones, who is the coordinator of community development and engagement.

You will each have five minutes. If you could wind it up when you see my pen, that would be fantastic.

I'm going to first pass the floor over to Mercy.

You have the floor for five minutes.