Status of Women Committee on Nov. 20th, 2024

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Maybe I misunderstand, but I believe you have a second project funded by WAGE in which you're trying to develop a framework or co-operation among women's organizations. Perhaps I'm mistaken or I misunderstood.

[Valérie Auger-Voyer]

It's definitely part of the work that we do. We bring together, for example, sexual assault centre networks—provincial and territorial networks from across the country—to analyze the gaps and the trends and the issues with the national action plan and other things. That's where our data comes from for the gaps—

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you.

I have one more quick question before I run out of time. You said that comprehensive sex education for children in school will prevent gender-based violence.

[Valérie Auger-Voyer]

For sure, it is one of the ways to prevent sexual violence.

It's essential, because kids need to learn about consent, first of all. From a very young age, they can learn about whether they want to give a hug to someone or whether they want their picture taken. That needs to be integrated from the first grades up until high school, where they can start talking about structural racism, misogyny, how to navigate the tech world, their online presence, intimate images, pornography and all of those things. They need to learn about consent, healthy relationships, dating violence, etc.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you, MP Hepfner.

Next is Andréanne Larouche.

You have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Ms. Uhlman and Ms. Auger‑Voyer, I'll get to you in another round because I'd first like to circle back to what Mr. Boisvenu said.

Mr. Boisvenu, you raised the electronic bracelet issue that I wanted to discuss today.

I'm trying to find a solution here. In Quebec, the electronic bracelet was one of the measures that was recommended in the Rebâtir la confiance report. A pilot project is currently under way at various locations in Quebec to determine what works well. That's it, a pilot project: We're analyzing and determining what works well, what doesn't work well and what needs to be improved. I've had a few discussions with the Ministry of Public Safety in Quebec City, and the initial findings are that no one seems to want to take a step backwards.

Bill C-233, under which judges may require offenders to wear an electronic bracelet, has been passed. You said that, despite that fact, it seems to be hard to implement this legislative change. You said that you didn't understand what happened in the femicide case in Candiac and that judges perhaps weren't sufficiently aware of the existence of remote monitoring tools. So we're talking about education.

What are we missing now that this issue has been addressed at the federal level and the bill has been passed? Quebec has its pilot project for crimes committed in Quebec. We agree that this remote monitoring tool won't solve all the problems, but what else could we do to improve its implementation?

[Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu]

The Quebec experiment has definitely been conclusive; it's true. Some 350 men wear or have worn an anti-approach bracelet, and there have been no homicides. Only three men have cut their bracelets. In one of those cases, the victim wasn't notified by the police service. In the other two, the victim was notified and officers immediately arrested the man. In Spain, nearly 800 women have worn a bracelet in recent years, and there have been no homicides. So it's an effective tool.

When a bill is passed in Canada, the Minister of Justice is responsible for informing the judicial councils of it. Once a bill receives royal assent, it comes into force either automatically or by order. It then becomes part of the legal system and the federal government's role is to inform. In my view, that's where the problem lies. We passed a bill, but it feels as though we shelved it, thinking it would manage itself. But that's not the case. That requires an information strategy from the judiciary. There are judicial councils in all the provinces, and this information has to reach them. The first person responsible for this is the federal Minister of Justice. Then it's up to each of the provincial ministers who have an administration-of-justice mandate.

It's as though there was no comprehensive strategy in Canada for information to reach judges in their courts. Judges regularly meet to discuss legislative changes. However, there should be a specific strategy when changes concerning tools as important as the electronic bracelet are made because lives are at stake.

I hope that answers your question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

MP Gazan, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to give you an opportunity, Senator, because I ran out of time.

[Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu]

Earlier you mentioned Bill C-5. We know that bill was adopted on the pretext that federal penitentiaries were overpopulated and certain groups, mainly indigenous people, were overrepresented. That's true, particularly in western Canada. Between 17% and 20% of penitentiary inmates are indigenous, whereas indigenous people represent only 7% of the total population.

In its judgment in Gladue, in 1999, the Supreme Court urged judges to find alternatives to incarceration. When it revisited the issue in 2004 and 2012, it told judges that it had ordered them to find alternatives to incarceration but that they hadn't done their work.

Consequently, Bill C-5, which was assented to in 2022, won't reduce the indigenous population in our penitentiaries. Proof of that is that 40% of inmates convicted of sexual assault have been sent home and that of that 40%, only three percentage points were indigenous, while the remaining 37% were from the white community.

The Criminal Code thus already contains provisions for limiting the incarceration of indigenous inmates as far as possible.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I actually don't disagree with you, Senator. In fact, one of the issues I had with Bill C-5 was that I don't believe it adequately addressed systemic racism within the justice system. You're absolutely correct in your assertion that it was highly criticized for those issues.

I don't disagree. We're on the same page there. I was just mentioning the intent of it, although I don't personally think it was totally successful.

You were talking about overrepresented populations. You spoke about MMIWG, sex workers, 2SLGBTQ+ and the disability community.

We did a whole study around sex work. My bias is that when you make it illegal, you're actually placing sex workers under greater threat, because they can't go to any sort of authority for help, since what they're doing is illegal.

I know that they're calling for the decriminalization of sex work, not the legalization of sex work. Do you agree that decriminalizing sex work would make sex workers safer because there's a high rate of violence and often femicide in the case of sex workers?

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

MP Gazan, unfortunately, you are long past your time.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Can you do it in writing?

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

At any point, if questions are posed that you don't have an opportunity to answer, please feel free to submit your answers via writing, or perhaps you'll have an opportunity to answer in the next round.

Mrs. Vien, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good evening to the witnesses.

I'm happy to see you once again, Mr. Boisvenu. It's a real pleasure.

Since I don't have a lot of time, I'll go straight to another topic. There have been some 20 femicides in Quebec so far, haven't there?

[Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu]

There have been 24.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

So it is growing exponentially.

[Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu]

It's a record year.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

There have been more than last year. It's a record year.

[Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu]

There were 22 femicides in 2021.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

It's terrible.

In your presentation, you said that violence against women should be a men's issue. December 6 is approaching. At the École polytechnique de Montréal, women were murdered because they were women.

Right now, a masculinist movement is making rather toxic comments about women. We heard it on Tout le monde en parle two weeks ago. Millions of men follow influencers who have chilling views and attitudes about women. For example, they say that women must be submissive, that they have no leadership abilities. An escalation can be detected in that discourse, which seeks to confine women to an environment where they clearly no longer want to be.

We live in a free society where everyone has the right to express themselves, and I agree with that. However, when you hear those kinds of comments, which are quite disturbing, to say the least, from men who are given a microphone, how do you react? When men make such comments on podcasts, radio programs or prime-time television programs, what does that say to you?

[Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu]

I think that the media outlet in question failed in its responsibility. I don't agree with broadcasting the photos of serial killers. When a woman is murdered, we shouldn't be apologizing for the murderer, but apologizing for the woman.

It's irresponsible for the media to invite people to debate very controversial issues that can ultimately lead to violence against certain individuals. This isn't the kind of information that should be broadcast, especially on state networks. I would be very careful about giving public exposure to those men. There are already too many people saying such things on social media and we shouldn't give them exposure on state networks.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

You said that the Canadian Victims Bill of Rights, or CVBR, should have evolved, that the current government should have changed it, particularly with regard to the point you raised, that is, consultation with victims' families on whether to release an accused person.

How can the current CVBR be changed to make it more binding? Is the CVBR binding? How does that work in real life?

[Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu]

The Canadian Victims Bill of Rights is seriously flawed. As I said earlier, it's like a vehicle with four wheels and an engine. This vehicle can stay in your yard if you don't put fuel in it. If you put some in, but you don't do maintenance, it won't do much mileage. The same applies to a bill, it has to evolve, it needs fuel.

I'll give you an example. The CVBR was passed on the condition that within two years of its adoption, the government would establish a complaints management process. That didn't happen. If a formal complaints process had been adopted, the CVBR would deal with them more effectively today.