Status of Women Committee on Dec. 4th, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 136 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on the Status of Women.

To all members, please wait until I recognize you by name prior to speaking. I'd also like to remind everyone that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Wednesday, September 25, 2024, the committee will commence its study of hate-motivated violence targeting the 2SLGBTQI+ community.

At this point, I would like to welcome our witnesses. From the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, we have Peter Madou, assistant deputy minister, operational intelligence and assessment requirements. From the integrated terrorism assessment centre is Michael Wallis, executive director. From the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, we have Catherine Dubuc, acting director general, hate crimes, and director general, culture, innovation and GBA+.

We will now begin with our opening statements.

I welcome Mr. Madou.

You have the floor for approximately five minutes.

[Peter Madou, Assistant Deputy Minister, Operational Intelligence and Assessment Requirements, Canadian Security Intelligence Service]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Madam Chair and members of the committee.

My name is Peter Madou and I am the Assistant Deputy Minister of Operational Intelligence and Assessment Requirements at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.

I would first like to thank the committee for inviting CSIS to appear on this very important issue.

CSIS takes all threats of violence very seriously and continues to monitor, investigate and mitigate threats against the 2SLGBTQIA+ community in Canada on a priority basis.

Violent extremism continues to pose a significant and growing threat to Canada's national security. While only a small number of Canadians are actually willing to engage in serious violence in support of their gender and identity driven views, their actions continue to have devastating real world consequences, as we saw in Waterloo just last year.

The increase in violent extremist activity is felt acutely within the 2SLGBTQIA+ and other marginalized communities, as they can be the target of threats emanating from both ideologically and religiously motivated violent extremists. The anti-gender movement, which rejects the 2SLGBTQIA+ community, is a national security issue when associated with extremists who exercise gender identity-driven violence as a result of personal beliefs stemming from misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, religious interpretations, conspiracy theories or a generalized fear of socio-cultural change.

It is important to note that while violent rhetoric itself does not equate to or necessarily lead to violence, the ecosystem of violent rhetoric within the anti-gender movement, compounded with other extreme worldviews, can lead to serious violence.

Exposure to entities espousing anti-gender extremist rhetoric could inspire and encourage serious violence against the 2SLGBTQIA+ community and its allies. Violent actors may also be inspired by real-world events, like the University of Waterloo attack, to carry out their own extremist violence, sometimes with little to no warning.

Anti-2SLGBTQIA+ rhetoric is also spreading widely through social media and online forums among violent extremists, increasing the risk of extremist violence against the community and its allies as well as the risk of vulnerable youth being radicalized on online platforms.

To counter these threats and protect public safety, CSIS continues to vigorously investigate and disrupt the threat activities of violent extremists in collaboration with foreign and domestic security intelligence and law enforcement partners. Where appropriate, CSIS leverages the full extent of its authorities to mitigate threats of gender identity-driven violence.

CSIS is also committed to building resiliency and increasing public awareness of these threats, including through modernized authorities granted to CSIS under Bill C‑70. CSIS' new resiliency disclosure authority recognizes that protecting Canada's national security is a shared endeavour that includes partnering with all levels of government, Canadian communities and the private sector. CSIS is actively using this new tool and is committed in its efforts to bridge across sectors and find ways to cooperate in the national interest. This includes increased sharing of relevant threat information to a wider range of recipients to protect national security.

However, more work needs to be done to ensure that all persons in Canada feel safe to express themselves and their identities without threats of violence. Canadians must work together to prevent radicalization at its root by combatting misinformation and disinformation, slowing the spread of violent content and hateful rhetoric, and fostering cohesion between Canadian communities.

I will conclude by noting that while CSIS cannot publicly comment on its operational activities or ongoing investigations, I welcome this opportunity for a frank and transparent discussion on the threats to Canada's 2SLGBTQIA+ communities.

I am happy to answer your questions.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you very much, Mr. Madou.

At this point, I would like to welcome Mr. Wallis.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Michael Wallis, Executive Director, Integrated Terrorism Assessment Centre]

Madam Chair, members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to speak today on this important topic as we approach the National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women.

As the executive director of the integrated terrorism assessment centre, I am responsible for assessing and advising the government on the threat of violent extremism to Canada and to Canadian interests abroad. This includes recommending the national terrorism threat level.

As the leader of a national fusion cell, I am accountable to the national security intelligence adviser to the Prime Minister and the director of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.

ITAC produces all-source assessments to predict the likelihood of a violent extremist attack. To reach a spectrum of clients, ITAC publishes at multiple levels of classification. In this way, we seek to inform many stakeholders and police postures as well as their dialogue with communities.

The ITAC paper that is cited in the report is a threat assessment on 2024 pride events. In preparing that document, analysts evaluated the complex interplay between threat actor intentions, capabilities and opportunities to carry out violence. The centre forecasted a period of heightened propaganda during pride season, and it reinforced the possibility of a lone attacker.

Then, as now, the most likely scenario facing Canada is an individual motivated by a personalized world view. Inside this view, there can be contradictory grievances. This person would use unsophisticated weapons.

Every day, ITAC personnel evaluate potential violence against those who advocate for sexual equality, diversity and equal opportunities. That is because, to be clear, women and the 2SLGBTQIA+ community are constantly cited in violent extremist rhetoric and have been the target of specific violence in recent years. Both the ideologically motivated violent extremist and the religiously motivated violent extremist seek to victimize women and the 2SLGBTQIA+ community.

Two recent examples punctuate the point: In 2023, a former student of the University of Waterloo went on a stabbing rampage in a gender-studies class to ‘instil fear’. That same year, Calgary police disrupted a foursome supporting the Islamic State; an underage male in the group wanted to kill a woman and made threats against Pride.

Since April 2024, 26% of ITAC's outputs addressed real or potential threats to individuals based on identity factors such as gender or sexual orientation. This category of violent extremist mentality is rooted, to be sure, in homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia, Islamophobia and anti-Semitism.

Our IMVE-related publications have increased each year over the past few years. IMVE is a global phenomenon, so ITAC also, unfortunately, provides products of this sort from allied agencies around the world. Western democracies have acknowledged how social media has contributed to the mainstreaming of violence. Our societies are increasingly polarized.

The impact of rhetoric on Canadians' perception of safety and security cannot be underestimated, even if the average number of terrorist attacks in Canada has remained at 1.8 attacks per year for the last five years. This causes me to acknowledge an important point, which is that the vast majority of hateful messages and actions fall below the threshold of national security.

Nonetheless, my colleagues in national security and I are deeply concerned that anti-gender violent rhetoric could inspire youth or other vulnerable members of our society to mobilize to violence. National security stakeholders, ITAC included, are using all of the tools at their disposal to prevent this outcome.

For its part, ITAC continues to serve as an early warning for serious violence against women, the 2SLGBTQIA+ community, public policy-makers and community events.

I hope that my comments have advanced the committee's understanding of the issues. It would be my pleasure to answer questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you very much, Mr. Wallis.

Ms. Dubuc, you have the floor.

[Catherine Dubuc, Acting Director General, Hate Crimes, Culture, Innovation and GBA Plus, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon, Chair and members of the committee.

I would like to begin by acknowledging that we are gathered on the unceded and unsurrendered territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe peoples.

My name is Catherine Dubuc. I am currently acting director general of the hate crimes policy team, and I am also responsible for the culture, innovation and gender-based analysis plus directorate within the RCMP’s reform, accountability and culture sector. Thank you for inviting me here today as part of your study of hate-motivated violence against 2SLGBTQI+ communities.

I would like to begin by sharing or explaining the mandate and work of the RCMP, as well as some key points on hate crimes in the Canadian context. The RCMP across Canada continues to support the Government of Canada's efforts to combat hate crimes through collaboration with federal and provincial governments and agencies, non-government organizations, communities and law enforcement partners. Hate crimes are motivated by prejudice or bias against an identifiable group. Under the Criminal Code of Canada, identifiable groups include those defined by sexual orientation and gender identity or expression, among many other groups.

According to Statistics Canada, police-reported hate crimes targeting sexual orientation have increased 225%, and hate crimes targeting transgender and non-binary individuals have increased 120% between 2019 and 2023. This data encompasses all police of jurisdiction across Canada.

The RCMP has experienced similar increases in hate crimes targeting 2SLGBTQI+ people across Canada. It is especially concerning to the RCMP that crimes motivated by hatred towards these communities are reported to be more violent in nature when compared to all other reported hate crimes.

Current data indicates that 2SLGBTQI+ communities are disproportionately represented in hate crimes targeting gender and sexual orientation. For every crime targeting sexual orientation or sex and gender outside of these communities, there are 28 crimes motivated by hatred against 2SLGBTQI+ communities. Four out of the top five hate-motivated crime types perpetrated against these communities are violent in nature.

Hate crimes targeting the 2SLGBTQI+ community have increased at a faster rate in 2023 and 2024 than in the previous three years. The full extent of the impact of hate crimes on the 2SLGBTQI+ communities remains difficult to measure. There is a need for more information on the barriers that prevent these individuals from reporting hate crimes, including the fear of escalating violence. Under-reporting remains significant, often stemming from the reluctance of victims and witnesses to come forward.

The RCMP is aware that 2SLGBTQI+ communities have historically faced criminalization and persecution by police, noting that many who experienced violence did not report it primarily because they did not think it would make a difference. The RCMP has been committed, and continues to be committed, to rebuilding trust, fostering engagement and building community connections.

In 2022, the RCMP, in partnership with the Canadian Race Relations Foundation, launched the hate crimes task force to increase the scope, nature and impact of efforts to address hate crimes in Canada. Progress continues through this forum to increase officer and public awareness of hate crimes and how to report them. On September 24, 2024, the Government of Canada announced Canada’s action plan on combatting hate, bringing together new and existing federal initiatives to confront hate in its various forms through three pillars: empowering communities, supporting victims and survivors, and building community trust, partnerships and institutional readiness.

The RCMP is providing national leadership in combatting hate crimes through operational policy development, centralized access to relevant data and research and strengthening partnerships between the RCMP and police of jurisdiction to address hate crimes in Canada.

The mandate to investigate hate crimes falls to the local police of jurisdiction. To ensure a coordinated approach to detecting, investigating and combatting hate crimes, the RCMP is supporting these efforts through integrated resources, information sharing and community partnerships, promoting policies and best practices that are critical to law enforcement's effective response.

The RCMP has strengthened and continues to strengthen its connections with community groups and organizations, working to support victim support services and community-based resources. Hate crimes against 2SLGBTQI+ communities are a significant concern for the RCMP, which is dedicated to the safety and security of all Canadians.

I am pleased to be here today to answer your questions, and to provide additional information on the projects and initiatives that the RCMP has been working on.

Thank you for continuing to bring attention to this crucial area that impacts the lives, health and well-being of 2SLGBTQI+ people throughout Canada.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you all; that concludes our opening remarks.

At this point, we will move to our first round of questioning.

Mrs. Vien, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Ladies and gentlemen, I want to thank every one of the witnesses for being available to meet with us today. We are pleased to have you here.

We've just completed a study on violence against women, and since we're still in that frame of mind, we're looking a little further afield and examining the situation of a new community, the LGBTQ+ community.

As you noted, gentlemen, December 6, this coming Friday, is a very important date that we must not forget. It's the date of the Polytechnique massacre, in which 14 women were murdered solely because they were women. We will be commemorating its 35th anniversary this year.

Ms. Dubuc, you said that victims find it very hard to trust the police. We've often heard that in the course of our proceedings. You're telling us that that trust has to be restored, and the Quebec government has moved forward on that by implementing its strategy to address sexual and domestic violence and to rebuild trust.

Since we don't have a lot of time, would you please tell us in a few words exactly what you're going to do to convince victims to go to the police or the RCMP to document their case so that perpetrators can ultimately be arrested and convicted?

[Catherine Dubuc]

Thank you very much for that question.

Yes, those are comments that we regularly hear, and we've introduced a number of mechanisms.

Victims who don't feel comfortable contacting police services directly can file complaints and report problems anonymously through websites and various police services.

Individuals who really want to contact the police can do so through all our programs in co‑operation with their community police force thanks to the bridges we've built with non-governmental organizations and members of minority groups within the organizations in question. The RCMP is very actively involved at that level.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

You mentioned four violent crimes in particular. What are the crimes targeting the LGBTQ+ community? What kind of crimes are they?

[Catherine Dubuc]

There are two classes of hate crimes to consider.

For example, some hate crimes are covered by Canada's Criminal Code; these are offences that have actually been committed. Four specific provisions in the Criminal Code apply to certain crimes that are hate-based, such as hateful antisemitic crimes.

There are also more minor incidents, although their consequences are no less serious for a community, such as hate-based incidents involving inappropriate language toward an already racialized or minority group.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Would you please tell us how many crimes you deal with in a year that target individuals in the LGBTQ+ community?

[Catherine Dubuc]

Thank you for that question.

That's what we're trying to determine through the Hate Crimes Task Force, which the RCMP has established in collaboration with the Canadian Race Relations Foundation and the 13 police services we work with across the country. We're in the process of creating mechanisms and tools to expand our capacity to report a hate crime rate that's slightly more representative of what's happening in the world.

It's hard to give you an actual figure because we know that some crime rates and questioning crimes aren't reported.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Is it harder to investigate hate crimes committed against the LGBTQ+ community than those targeting individuals in society as a whole?

[Catherine Dubuc]

No, not necessarily. It's all relative, of course.

We have a partnership with Statistics Canada, which prepares quarterly reports that are now publicly available. The information is provided by police officers, who record underlying motivations for hate crimes in a database. This enables us to focus in on the LGBTQ+ community.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

What are your officers telling you? Why are these people targeted?

[Catherine Dubuc]

That's a good question.

These people are targeted for a variety of reasons. For example, they include fear in the community, policies that are adopted by various levels of government and external, even foreign, forces from outside Canada. I don't want to speculate on that, but I'd say that there's basically a lot of misunderstanding and fear.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

MP Damoff, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here today.

I want to start by focusing on transphobia. In 2021, of the 30.5 million people in Canada aged 15 or older and living in a private household, only 0.33% identified as trans or non-binary. It's a minuscule portion of the population, yet the rhetoric, misinformation and hate directed at transpeople are quite astonishing, and we see them here in Canada, not just in the United States.

In my riding, there were complaints about drag storytimes at the Oakville Public Library. I don't know that anybody's died at a drag storytime, but they certainly have died because of transphobia. It's not just far-right YouTube channels that are pushing this; Alberta just passed three bills to supposedly protect kids and females in sport.

My assistant Rodney dug up a story that happened in British Columbia. During a track meet, a man stepped forward during an event and began questioning the gender of a nine-year-old because she had a pixie cut. He demanded that her parents provide documentation to prove her sex.

Do you believe this kind of transphobic hate also hurts people toward whom the hate is not even directed? Here's a little girl who's no doubt being traumatized because of the rhetoric that gets into the general discourse.

I wonder if you could talk about the impacts this kind of language and tone have on society.

Maybe we'll start with you, Ms. Dubuc, and then go across.

[Catherine Dubuc]

Okay. That sounds great. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair, for the question. This is an example that is very heartbreaking to hear, but, unfortunately, it's something that I would say is certainly well known. I won't be commenting personally, but from the RCMP standpoint, what's important to us, obviously, in terms of our mandate, is ensuring the safety and security of all Canadians.

In terms of just my overall observations.... I'm sorry. Could you please hone in on the question?

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

How does this kind of hate impact other people in the community?

[Catherine Dubuc]

Overall, when we look at, for example, anything that attacks the fabric of our society or the values we purport to have here in Canada in terms of feeling safe and feeling like we can lean on our community members, it really affects the fabric of our society. Ultimately, what is done to one individual who's harmed impacts all of us as well.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Mr. Madou, do you want to add to that?

[Peter Madou]

Thank you for the question.

I think violent extremism stems from a range of different ideologies that are built on people's fears and hate.

From a CSIS perspective, we intersect only when they're acts of serious violence that are motivated either by someone radicalizing another person or by someone inciting them to violence, so we don't have a very clear aperture, but we do notice that there is a growing movement of online radicalization that's going on, specifically among youth. That's what we can observe from our national security investigation.

A lot of it might just be because there are youthful members of our society who are stuck in an ecosystem online where there's nobody countering the mis- or disinformation that they're getting, and that builds toward that hatred.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

We passed Bill C-16, which actually added hate crimes based on gender identity to the Criminal Code. That was during my first term as an MP, and I'm quite proud of that.

You mentioned how you've been able to lay charges. Has that bill assisted you in being able to lay charges around hate-motivated crimes because of gender identity?