Status of Women Committee on Dec. 16th, 2024

[Tyler Boyce]

We're really bringing this conversation to where it needs to be when we talk about online harms, because, as the other Tyler mentioned, these harms are happening in real life.

One common theme today that I'm seeing is the responsibility of our elected officials to make sure these conversations are happening in a responsible way that doesn't cause undue harm. What I would add is that I know, in a non-partisan way across all parties, folks do understand the responsibility of what it means to represent Canadians. What I would add is a gentle reminder that “all Canadians” does not mean those who are politically convenient; it means all communities, including our communities.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

When we hear the Leader of the Opposition say that “female spaces should be exclusively for females, not biological males”, what does that say to you if that is the leader of the Conservative Party?

[Tyler Boyce]

It says to me that trans women who are simply trying to use the washroom are at a heightened risk of becoming a statistic of an unnecessary and avoidable hate crime. It means, to me, that the way folks are expressing themselves, whether it's intentional or not, needs a lot of work if you're going to live up to the promise of representing all Canadians.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you.

I have about 45 seconds left.

I was hoping to get over to you, Lauren Pragg, online.

I was very moved by your opening statement, particularly when you spoke about a student who had been harassed by teachers and parents who had been radicalized to think that schools were “transing” kids. I asked a teacher about this in our last session at this committee. Teachers themselves are being attacked over the misconception that they're causing students to think a certain way about their gender.

Can you respond to that?

[Lauren Pragg]

Thank you so much for the question. I know we don't have much time.

The truth is that gender is a social construct. It's part of a teacher's role to speak about that, as they do with any other social concept they're sharing with students. I think that, again, there is a fear among school officials of parental backlash and what that does. There is, as many of my colleagues here today have said, the threat of this violence spilling out beyond our communities, as well.

The last thing I want to say right now is that think we need to go a bit deeper and look at what is driving this division. The cost of living is up. This is about people not feeling like they have enough and looking for scapegoats all over the place. Right now, we're talking about the 2SLGBTQ community, but there are other examples of this throughout our society. I think these are the things we need to address. We have to make sure everybody has what they need to function, so they don't need to turn on each other to feel as if they have power and access to the services that speak to them.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Thank you.

Thank you, Lauren Pragg.

Now we'll go to Ms. Ferreri for five minutes.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses today. The world is obviously politically heated right now, and we appreciate your time.

I want to come back to Mr. Wisner, if I can.

Death threats are certainly not acceptable at anyone's expense.

One thing we're seeing and hearing a lot about in the 2SLGBTQIA+ community is homelessness—access to resources and housing. In a lot of the agencies you're helping with.... Again, I know there's a diverse group of people here who are working with different folks.

How important is housing? I see it in my community of Peterborough. We have a youth emergency shelter. There's a high percentage of kids who are identifying, and they don't have access to affordable housing. How important do you think the economy is, and how does it come into play in how people do? We've seen this. We've heard the Liberals say this, too: When the economy falls, people look for a scapegoat. They're stressed out of their minds, they're not regulated, and they project and hurt other people because they're in survival mode.

Mr. Wisner, how important do you think a healthy economy is to restoring the ability to even learn, be educated and be in that headspace?

[Tyler Wisner]

Thank you for the question.

Affordable housing, affordable groceries and affordable living are incredibly important. It's unfortunate if we have this discussion and not talk about those things. We need to have this discussion before we can move on. We have to address these issues, or they won't go away. We should be talking about the housing crisis, the groceries crisis and the job crisis. These are things that affect people across Canada, no matter what.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I think about the mental state of folks. It's like an intersection. You think you're never going to be able to afford a home or have a safe home or safe street, and you're also dealing with an intersection of other issues, like a lack of education. My colleague Anna said it's about trying to reach different people and having those discussions—as you did, Mr. Boyce.

The fall economic statement is supposed to be delivered today. What do you want to see in that fall economic statement in terms of how the economy should be functioning, in order for people to have access to the basics—food and housing?

I'll go back to you, Mr. Wisner.

[Tyler Wisner]

I'd say that because of my position at the Department of Justice, I shouldn't comment on that.

I will say that hate is received by, or perpetuated by, not just those in low socio-economic statuses. I grew up in Oakville, Ontario, an incredibly wealthy city, where I received incredible hate from wealthy social conservatives. My colleagues at work have received the same from a very different point of view.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I think we've talked about this multiple times with other witnesses. It's that connection piece that has to happen for people to see people. That's where that discussion and education opens up, and this goes to Mr. Boyce's point about going into seniors homes, and to my colleague Ms. Roberts' point. When we see the person, it dissolves a lot of that tension or anger.

I will hammer this point: When people can't afford to live, they're not even in a position to listen or hear or be regulated. I'm just getting a message from my community right now. We have the highest rate of food insecurity for children in history—in history. If you're a child and you're different, if you learn differently, your gender is different, or your sexuality is different, and your parents can't afford to live, they're fighting and they're stressed out. The incidence or risk of domestic violence is going to go up. The desperation that happens when you can't afford to feed your family bleeds into all facets.

There's been a 251% increase in hate crimes in this country since Justin Trudeau took office. That's not a coincidence. It's also seen the lowest GDP per capita growth. I would love to see people be able to have this education and understanding and be open to these things, but we have to ensure that people can eat and house themselves.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

MP Ferreri, you have about 30 seconds, please.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you so much.

I just want to ask Ms. Baker about access to housing for folks and the resources, when they're in that housing, to have peer support.

[Olivia Baker]

There's no question that LGBTQ+ people are overrepresented in the population of people experiencing homelessness, one of the main reasons being rejection by their families. The second reason is that shelter staff, among others, aren't always equipped or trained to treat LGBTQ+ people in a respectful way. Trans women, in particular, come to mind, because they aren't always welcome in women's organizations.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Thank you.

Next is Ms. Lambropoulos.

Emmanuella, you have five minutes.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to start by thanking all of the witnesses. They have all been great today. I want to thank them so much for their testimony.

I'm hearing some things that I'm really not okay with. I've heard things throughout this meeting, and actually other meetings for this study, that I haven't been okay with. It kind of just reinforces the idea of using scapegoats when things are not going well. I've heard it said today that newer immigrants, new populations, might be the cause for the rise in hate. I heard the same thing said at a previous meeting by another member.

I just want to say that this is not okay. In my experience, people who used to have a mentality of “live and let live” are actually the ones who have changed their mentality over the last few years. It's not necessarily new people to Canada. It's Canadians who have been here for a long time and who have access to disinformation and misinformation online and to what they're being shown. Honestly, I think the Conservative Party does use scapegoats, unfortunately, and does use certain minority communities against each other, trying to use this as a reason for increased hate.

I don't think that's the case. I think it's very dangerous to go down that path.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

I would like to continue, thank you very much.

My question is this: What can be done, in your opinion, or what can be said to people who did have this mentality of openness before, of live and let live, and who have been influenced by the change in rhetoric they're hearing online? What are some of the messages you would want people to hear today?

Anyone can answer that.

Go ahead, Mr. Boyce.

[Tyler Boyce]

I really appreciate the thoughtful question and that you pointed out the harmful consequences of scapegoating communities.

What can be done in order for us to avoid the low-hanging fruit of scapegoating communities and, rather, to create the enduring relationships we're going to need to take us into the next decade, and definitely into this next electoral season we're going into, are those conversations that are going to be led by 2SLGBTQI+ organizations.

The easiest way to bring folks back to an understanding—and I'm actually going to pull from your previous question—is the simple fact that we need to have equal opportunity across all sectors in Canada, whether it's in housing, in employment or in health care. If Canadians, simply because of their gender identity, sexual orientation or whatever other factor, cannot access those same resources, then we're never going to get to where we need to be.

I think that immigrant communities understand this maybe better than most Canadians. Most immigrant communities came here for the chance to access all of the amazing resources and to become members of Parliament, elected officials and leaders in AI and innovation, and we only see that because we were able to access education and resources.

When we're talking about scapegoating communities, for folks who might have forgotten their humble origins in this country or folks who are scapegoating whole communities, I think we have to understand the tremendous opportunity we have to create connections in this country. That doesn't start by scapegoating. It starts by reaching out to these communities in conversations like this, led by people like me and the hundreds of queer and trans organizations you represent at the Enchanté Network.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you so much.

Actually, you spoke to something that had been mentioned previously about housing.

I know a trans woman who was refused rental housing, even though she had the funds to pay for it. She was refused at least 10 times before she finally found housing she could live in.

These barriers existed before people weren't able to afford housing. It's like you said: This intersectional lens needs to be applied because not everyone has equal access, regardless of their economic status.

[Tyler Boyce]

I'll add that we'll be submitting a brief with precise statistics of how queer and trans communities are doing across sectors, and also with an intersectional analysis of data, particularly for Black, queer and trans folks who we know have heightened inequitable access to these public services.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

I think Mr. Wisner wanted to chime in as well.

[Tyler Wisner]

I'll just quickly finish up my comment from earlier.

The cost of living crisis is very real. I believe all political parties agree on that. I do want to hammer this point that low socio-economic status does not cause gender dysphoria.

I'll leave it at that.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you.

Lauren, you spoke to us earlier about your organization, which helps 3,000 youth a year.

I'm wondering if you've noticed this increase recently. Have more people been reaching out?

What would you say is the biggest cause?

You also spoke a little bit about the fact that more people are having a harder time making and keeping friends since the pandemic. What do you think is contributing to that?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Please wrap it up in 30 seconds.