I didn't hear the end of your question, but I will say that I don't think it's an either-or conversation. The point I'm trying to make is that there is a continuum of justice. I'm saying that the first point on that continuum must be one where we meet Canadians with empathy, compassion and the hope they can be brought into a conversation.
Maybe the last step is the punitive approach, but at this point in time, in 2024, I'm very willing to lean into public education as a first piece.