Status of Women Committee on May 3rd, 2022

[Hilda Anderson-Pyrz]

I think you are too optimistic. As indigenous women, girls and 2S people, we've tried to sit at many tables, and we're often silenced or not respected and our rights are not respected. Sometimes it's almost as if we're brought to the table just to say that they met with us, but they're not valuing the contributions that we can bring to the table.

I'm not going to say that all tables are like that, but I would say the majority of the tables that I've sat at have often just created a space for me, but not valued what I bring to it. I know that has been the experience of many of my sisters across the country.

I do remain hopeful that I will see significant changes in my lifetime. That's why I continue to be such a strong advocate. I don't give up that hope because I know generations are relying on this auntie to create change. I sit at any table I'm invited to.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Wonderful. Thank you so much.

I'm now going to give the floor to Emmanuella for four minutes.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses for being with us today to answer some of our questions and for your great testimony.

My first question has to do with the safety of indigenous communities and of women and girls. This is for Mrs. Anderson-Pyrz.

I know that budget 2021 had a lot of money—millions of dollars—set aside to support culturally responsive policing and community safety services in indigenous communities. I know that this funding was to be over five years. There was $861 million over five years.

I'm wondering if you can tell me what you've been able to see from that funding in the last couple of years. If you haven't, then I'm going to take a look myself at where it's gone. I know that the money was in there for 2021 over five years. Could you let us know what has been done with that, in your view?

[Hilda Anderson-Pyrz]

I would say there have been some investments into indigenous policing services, but one of the key things I want to mention here is that, given the way that data is currently collected, it's very hard to paint a picture of where the funding is going, because the realities of the investments are not really being captured. I think we really need to look at data going forward, especially if we're trying to measure outcomes. That's a critical component.

I would also say that there has to be so much work done within policing agencies, because during the national inquiry, policing came up repeatedly from coast to coast to coast. I see some police agencies trying to change, bringing indigenous partners to the table and trying to self-reflect on their internal behaviours, policies and racism, really, which is what it really is.

I do see some movement, but as an indigenous woman, when I see the devastating impacts on the ground, as I said, I think it's not happening fast enough.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much.

We saw, unfortunately, when it was brought to light, what happened with the residential schools. When unmarked graves were found, that hit the news and it hit schools across Canada. I had so many students from my riding write to me, because their teachers actually had them write letters to their MP.

It was beautiful, really, to see how passionate they were. They were angry at me, because obviously they see me as a politician and as their representative, and they were upset, thinking that it was my fault and that I should do better. They were elementary students, and there was so much passion in their voices through these letters. It was beautiful to see, and I was really happy that I was seeing it.

What role do all of the witnesses on this panel think education could play in really opening the eyes of our youth? Clearly there's been a movement of the younger populations. That's what I see. A lot of the people who write to me about indigenous issues are the youth in my riding. Even though my riding is not one that has much of an indigenous population, these are still issues that a lot of young people write to me about. What can you tell me about that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

I'm going to call on Ellen.

You have about 10 seconds.

[Ellen Gabriel]

Education that tells the truth about Canada's colonial history is a good starting place, because we don't want to see the rhetoric that's being told in the schools today. Education is extremely important.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Wonderful. Thank you so much.

We're now going to pass the floor over to Sylvie.

You have four minutes.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My question is for Ms. Gabriel.

We are obviously talking about reconciliation and colonialist policies, but you also talked about due diligence. Please elaborate on the solutions that would allow for due diligence.

[Ellen Gabriel]

I'm not sure what “reasonable due diligence” means, but I think due diligence should be indigenous-led. It's affecting our rights. It needs to include, for sure, the interests of everybody, but according to our ways and customs, we need to look at whether our needs are going to be negatively impacting future generations and their needs. Those are the ways of due diligence that I think have an indigenous-led perspective.

It is important for everybody to be sitting at the table. It is important that we're all on the same page in what we're talking about today, which is education, and for everybody, whether corporations, politicians, judges or whoever, to see those reports.

I'll leave more time for other people to answer.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I have another question for Ms. Gabriel.

You said earlier that you had considered the safety and protection of indigenous women. Do you have any recommendations so we can help you more?

[Ellen Gabriel]

I think one of the things we need to tackle is the elephant in the room, which is corrupt governments, corrupt organizations that come into our communities and threaten the safety and well-being of our people. We need to implement free, prior and informed consent.

I've always said that a traditional warrior society in our communities needs to be not policing but just people like us. We had an ERU that was protecting us during the pandemic, keeping people who are not from the community from entering into the community. I don't want it to be that severe, but there needs to be an understanding that we are human beings and that, as the most marginalized group in society, we need extra protection. What that means is that we need to sit down and discuss that and change the mentality of society in its attitude towards indigenous women so that we can be safe when we walk in our communities and we can be safe on our homelands, even if it's in parks.

It's 2022. I've been doing this for 32 years. I feel more vulnerable than I did 32 years ago during the crisis in my community—and that says a lot—simply because of the organized crime that has been allowed to proliferate and infiltrate our community because of the Indian Act and the lack of awareness and the lack of political will to actually fix the over 300-year-old land dispute we have in my community. It's a complicated question and a complicated answer.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

My question is for Ms. Anderson‑Pyrz.

Ms. Anderson‑Pyrz, you talked about a national action plan with four pillars. Please tell us more about this national action plan.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You have about 20 seconds.

[Hilda Anderson-Pyrz]

The four pillars come from the National Family and Survivors Circle chapter. I actually shared it in the document that was written, because you'll learn a lot more about the four pillars. I think if those four pillars were applied to all kinds of different approaches when we're looking at addressing gender-based violence prevention, wellness and healing, they could be very instrumental.

I just wanted to say that. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Perfect. Thank you very much. I know our analysts and I have received that, on the four pillars. We'll make sure the committee is able to see that.

I'm now going to pass it over to Leah Gazan.

Leah, you have the last four minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much.

My last question is for Ellen Gabriel.

You talked about human beings, and I can't help but think of the Indian Act, which defined a person, a human being, as any individual besides an Indian. I think especially for indigenous women and girls and two-spirit, we're still struggling with that, with just being recognized as human beings.

In terms of misogyny and patriarchy in decisions that are made, you talked about the land dump, the toxic waste dump, in your community. Often these decisions are made devoid of the voices of indigenous women and two-spirit people. They just happen.

My question for you is this. When governments are going into communities and making agreements, who should they look to as the decision-making body? Should it just be chiefs and councils or do they need to really understand what free, prior and informed consent is and really do proper consultations with the community and especially indigenous women, girls and two-spirit people?

[Ellen Gabriel]

That's a good question. I think free, prior and informed consent should be the initiating process.

We as Haudenosaunee people have always said that the band council are service providers and they do not have a right to negotiate on land. Any negotiations on land should come to the traditional Haudenosaunee people, a government that existed before European arrival. Under the Iroquois Confederacy's Great Law of Peace, known as Gayanashagowa, indigenous women are the title holders to the land, and I know that in other communities there are similar constitutions.

We have a human rights-based approach under our traditional laws, and continuing to evolve into new forms of colonialism is not the answer. We could do at least the bare bones of free, prior and informed consent through having consultations, real consultations, and not just going through the motions of talking to an empty room or picking up the phone to the band council and asking whether or not they give permission. They need to be held accountable too, as another level of government.

Under the Indian Act, they have not been responsible, so that creates that “divide and conquer” mentality and the coercive ways for developers to get their way. That leaves us more vulnerable as indigenous women. It disrespects the authority and the traditional roles that indigenous women play.

Indigenous women definitely have to be at the table for any kind of consultations but also in the process of free, prior and informed consent. Thank you.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I ask that because we spoke about complaints coming forward about sexual assault and decisions being made about lands in the absence of women's and two-spirit voices, and there's nowhere to go, even when we speak up. It's not a lack of will—certainly not strength—as indigenous women and two-spirit people. That's not our issue. We really don't have a place to go, and our voices are marginalized.

Would you agree with that?

[Ellen Gabriel]

Yes. On top of that is the fear of reprisals if you speak out. This is coming from within and outside the community, especially given the circumstances we're living under here in Kanesatake.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I have 20 seconds. Is there anything else that you want to add?

[Ellen Gabriel]

We need to put action into words and not just apologies. We don't need more apologies that do nothing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

I absolutely agree, especially since I'm about to apologize to say I have to cut everybody off.

This has been such an incredible panel. On behalf of everybody on the status of women committee, I'd like to thank Martina, Ellen and Hilda.

Thank you so much for being part of this.

I'm going to remind everybody that we're now going to switch to in camera. For everybody who is on Zoom, there is an additional link that has been sent to you for this meeting. I'll ask that you go off this link and go to the other link immediately. It will take a couple of seconds to switch over, so we will suspend until we all get back.

On behalf of the committee, thank you very much.

We're suspended. We'll see you back in a couple of minutes.

[Proceedings continue in camera]