Status of Women Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2022

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Emmanuel. You have a lot of people in the room, and your biggest hurdle is probably going to be figuring out how to explain this technology, ironically, to a demographic, especially parents, as they navigate this.

It's Mental Illness Awareness Week, and I've already downloaded your app sitting here. You write in your app, under Blue Guardian, “It is projected that by 2030 untreated mental health problems will be the leading cause of mortality and morbidity globally.” I couldn't agree more, as a mom, and I think we are just starting to see the impacts of the pandemic. I think we're going to see this for years and years to come.

You say, “Choose proactive instead of reactive parenting”. The first thing I would ask, and I think it's been touched on, is this: Do you have any data as of yet regarding the success of this app?

[Emmanuel Akindele]

We're still at pretty early stages, so the sample size would be too small for me to share anything with you right now. The main thing is that I have a lot of stories from parents who have been able to use it.

There is one story I would like to share. I went around my neighbourhood during Mental Health Day, and I walked up to a parent who had a 17-year-old daughter. She already had diagnosed mental health issues and prior mental health diagnoses, so he was in a position where.... He said, “How do I let my daughter go off to university knowing that she has a lot of issues?” He was feeling kind of distraught about it. I presented a solution and an idea.

We're still at a pretty early stage. We're nowhere near what it can do, in terms of the emotional insights, but he said it removed a lot of stress off his shoulders, because ideally, if she goes off and he can still remain there and be able to monitor and have that conversation if something goes bad, it removes a lot of stress off him.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Well said.

We talked about this in the study before when we looked at co-regulation. If the parent is not regulated, that goes down to the child and vice versa. There's a saying my grandma always said, that you're only as happy as your most unhappy child. That's really powerful.

I'm curious how you're funded right now, the funding model you have.

[Emmanuel Akindele]

The way we've been funded is.... I was a student at Western, so I got a little funding from Western. I've also done a lot of funding for myself, so I was able to self-finance.

Ideally, the model I would like, in terms of being able to fund this and recruit a lot of engineers to work on the solution, would be to see if a school would be willing to purchase it on behalf of its students, and from there make it accessible to the entire student body.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

That's great.

When we're looking at mental health—and back to Ms. Todd, when she was talking about prevention—I think your app, Blue Guardian, can be a really critical piece of that prevention, because when we have a language and we're able to identify a feeling or an emotion, then we can move forward. Half the problem is that a parent isn't speaking the same language as the child, so there's this big barrier. As a result, you're basically not able to connect.

The other aspect would be resilience and grit. These are the key components that we need to teach our children. With social media, none of this stuff is ever going to go away, so how do we instill resilience and grit? It would be great to see a next level of Blue Guardian teach that: This is how you're feeling, so how do we now instill resilience and grit, and how do we manage those feelings?

Mental health first aid should also be on the record, when we talk about Ms. Todd and prevention. I think it should be key for all of that.

Some of the push-back may be from people who don't feel apps are trustworthy in terms of data collection, which I know Ms. Gazan touched on. Does it read your facial expressions? We know that this is one of the most powerful ways to gauge emotional response—happy, sad, etc.

[Emmanuel Akindele]

It doesn't read your face. We use only natural language processing. It's based on the language you're using and what you are typing, browsing or sending in an email. It tries to take context from that text and give it to a parent in a digestible format—whether happy, sad or neutral, or potentially, down the line, more specific.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Is there an interest in facial recognition at all?

[Emmanuel Akindele]

I would say no, personally. The main reason is that I wouldn't personally feel comfortable with our data collection taking that kind of data. I feel a lot more comfortable with text data because it's a lot better to break down.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

That's a great answer. I'm with you on that one.

Are we done?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Carol, I see you have your hand up. We have only about 10 seconds.

Do you have about 10 seconds of comment? Go ahead.

[Carol Todd]

As educators, we talk about apps. They're great to use. Emmanuel's app is the first stage, but you also need the stage after there's been an alert, and what happens. My big concern is.... Apps can be downloaded onto a young child's phone, but what happens with a teenager who's 13 or 19 and doesn't want their parents on their phone? That kind of solution is not going to work. It's really important that we build other solutions for education, social and emotional wellness within that online digital wellness part. That's my two cents.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thanks so much, Carol.

I'm just sitting here looking at the people we have at our table. I think with this group right here, we could get to work, so thank you, Carol, for adding that. I think it's all about this type of conversation. Thank you so much.

I'm now going to pass it over to Francesco.

Thank you so much for joining us today, Francesco. You have six minutes.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to my colleague Anita Vandenbeld for the time.

To the presenters today, I would like to start off with some of the earlier comments, which I found very interesting, in terms of government funding and government programs. There was reference to the time-limited funding and how pilot programs are translated into permanent programs. These are just some comments that I took some notes on. I believe that was stated by Dr. Williams, if I'm correct. If I have the wrong person, I apologize.

Dr. Williams, can you comment on that?

[Charmaine Williams]

Absolutely, it was me. I take responsibility for those comments.

I want to recognize that the government has actually tried to address a lot of these issues. It has these calls for funding, calls for proposals, and community agencies take those and develop programs. Sometimes they're moving from grant opportunity to grant opportunity. Certainly in my discussions with community agencies, one of the things we talk about is that Black organizations, indigenous organizations, organizations focused on people of colour that are in this space are moving from project and proposal to project and proposal while the system is being built somewhere over there.

How do we make these innovative solutions, these interventions that are working within communities, a sustained part of our mental health care system? I wonder if it's about redistributing resources, defunding in some places and moving that into places where they're actually reaching the communities we're trying to reach and thinking through the lens of equity. This is about reaching out to the communities that need it the most. We need to think differently about our resources. Is it redistribution of stuff from health, redistribution of resources that are going to public health, since there's a population health issue and also a health promotion issue? Those are my comments. I think there's a lot of innovation and exciting work happening within community-based organizations.

The other thing is that we could be thinking about making sustainable changes in the mental health care system by building a “person force” that can actually deliver these mental health care services from within the communities themselves. That requires, I guess, scholarships to get people skilled appropriately, but also recognition of other types of health care provision that are relevant to the mental health of young women and girls.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Doctor, for that.

My next question is for Ms. Olagunju. I wanted to say thank you for your participation in Future Black Female and for all you do there.

This is a direct kind of question. What would someone in the youth community, a leader within the community...? What would you like to see?

[Timilehin Olagunju, University Student and Youth Participant, Future Black Female]

Thank you very much for that question.

I'm an immigrant from Nigeria, so one thing I really want to see is prioritizing immigrants' mental health, because you go through a lot just being an immigrant, both from the process of immigrating and the trauma that you faced back home. I think that's something that should be looked at.

Another thing that I feel should be looked at.... We were mentioning something about the language barrier between parents and their kids, but I think that something parents should learn to start doing.... From the first instance when the child comes and talks about their issue, they should take it with so much interest. That's something I feel should be taught, that if I come to you, obviously I'm not lying. I have a reason, so please pay attention to what I'm saying. This also goes to our teachers or anyone in the community. If I come to you, I'd really appreciate it if you take whatever I'm saying as important.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

The next question is for Sydney.

I've read about some of the activities you're involved in, the initiatives, and kudos to you and the entire team there. Can you provide further commentary with regard to these activities and how they're making a difference in the lives of the people participating in them?

[Sydney Levasseur-Puhach]

Absolutely. We serve as many people as we can. We are open to the public, to folks not only in Winnipeg but also from reserves around Manitoba who come into the city.

We focus a lot on protecting youth—that's one of the big things we are interested in—where there are dangers, especially with vulnerable indigenous youth who come into the city to predators, to gang involvement and to sexual exploitation. We try to welcome them with open arms at their first meeting, whether they're coming in for school or for other programming, and ensure that they have a safe space to live, learn and develop this network of care and safety. That is really critical. That is on our prevention side.

As for intervention, we try to adapt to where the needs are in the community, whether that is in solidifying a safe space for women, addressing the murder crisis of indigenous women in Winnipeg and providing support for families who are experiencing that, or addressing women who experience sexualized or domestic violence, and then providing a ceremony space in an urban setting for indigenous folks to come together and get back to the way that we heal traditionally as indigenous people collectively, and in this—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much, Sydney.

I know there's so much to add, so I'm sorry to all of the questioners today because I'm really messing around with your time.

I'm passing it over for six minutes to Andréanne.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Assayag, to add to what we were saying about caregivers, I want to highlight the work of a man from my riding, Jean-Philippe Dion, who is the spokesperson for the organization Avant de craquer—Before you break down. He talked a lot about what he did as a caregiver for his mother, who had mental health problems. I salute him.

You also led the way on recognizing invisible work, so I would like to come back to that. I would like to remind you that in 2010, one of my predecessors in the Bloc Québécois, Nicole Demers, tabled a motion to create Invisible Work Day, during which we could reflect on all this. Unfortunately, this issue has not progressed since 2010. I hope that one day elected officials will start thinking about the importance of better recognizing those who do invisible work.

I would also like to hear your comments on GBA+, that is, gender-based analysis plus, which is not done everywhere or enough. It should be done more in Ottawa. I'd like you to tell us how important that might be on the issue of mental health. You've touched on that, but if you want to add a few words about the importance of GBA+, I invite you to do so.

[Lydya Assayag]

Thank you for the question.

Indeed, GBA+ is very important, because it is the lens through which we can see the effects that programs have on men, women, young people, older people, racialized people, etc. Without this lens, it looks like they are homogeneous groups. We are acting in good faith and putting programs in place thinking that this will help everyone, but it is not at all the case. It can only perpetuate exclusions. I think the other witnesses have mentioned that. So GBA+ is an essential tool, among others, that allows us to see the inequalities and avoid perpetuating them.

As for women's invisible work, this is a long-term battle, unfortunately. Society has not adapted. We have allowed women to study and to enter the labour market, but we have not adapted to their reality. The reality for women is that we wear many more hats than men, in general. Although there are also men who are family caregivers, it is a predominantly female role. Women play the role of cook, educator, mother, daughter, caregiver, and so on. At some point, they wear too many hats. So women turn to coping strategies, such as alcohol, drugs or medication. Sometimes this can go as far as suicide. All hats worn by women are considered natural, but they are not so natural. In reality, it is a social division of things. Until we make all these hats visible, we won't realize the weight that these young women have on their shoulders.

There is also the whole pressure of body image and hypersexualization, among others. We don't see it, but young women and girls are under a lot of pressure and suffer a lot. Until we have a gender-based analysis, we won't see it. We need this lens.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

You are absolutely right. Thank you very much for your comments. Moreover, you have used the right terminology: we are talking about family caregivers. That is indeed the term that should be used now, instead of “natural caregivers”, because, no, it is not natural to be a caregiver. We must remember that.

I also congratulate AFEAS, the Association féministe d'éducation et d'action sociale, which has taken up the fight for invisible work to be recognized. This organization is very active in this area.

Thank you very much for your testimony today, Ms. Assayag. I may have the opportunity to come back to you in the next round, but I would like to end this one by addressing Ms. Todd.

Ms. Todd, you talked about cyber-bullying, which is another issue that is very close to my heart. You mentioned the importance of introducing legislation on this issue, because online hate affects the mental health of young girls. As you explained, social networks have exacerbated these problems.

What does such a bill mean to you?

[Carol Todd]

I'm really glad you mentioned that because I was just thinking about it.

Back in 2014-15, the Conservatives brought up Bill C-13. You can google it. It was about protecting Canadians online. They called it a cyber-bullying bill, but to me it's not about cyber-bullying. It's about online victimization because it is about sharing sexual images of someone without consent. It takes away the child pornography part because the age of the person in the image can be all the way to adulthood. It's in the Criminal Code. You can get a jail sentence of up to five years. It's been more than five years since that bill was passed in 2015, and I believe it needs to be revisited. It's on my to-do list with the MP in my community.

Because it's labelled a cyber-bullying bill, I believe you have to really define what cyber-bullying is and define what online victimization is. Sharing intimate images is exploitation. Cyber-bullying is hateful speech, which is under harassment.

Maybe we need to look at criminal harassment because so many people who are saying they're being cyber-bullied are really being harassed, which is criminally chargeable. However, you can't get a police officer to investigate unless that harassment has a death threat on it. We need to really define it, look at what it really means and make it more punishable.

We need to do something. I think the government should look at that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

There need to be teeth. I think this is where you're going with this.

Thanks so much, Ms. Todd.

I'm now going to pass it over for six minutes to Leah Gazan.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much.

My next question is for Dr. Williams.

I really liked when you said that it's not individuals at risk but systems that are at risk of not meeting the needs of individuals. I used to say that in my course. Let's stop talking about at-risk youth and let's talk about systems that are at risk of not meeting the needs of youth. I think the onus is often placed on individuals with systems that are not adequately responding to needs. I really appreciated that. I love that so much.

You spoke about problems in mental health care, particularly because we often address mental health using a homogenous lens. We know it's not true that we're all the same, particularly for individuals coming from BIPOC communities.

The murder crisis of indigenous women and girls was mentioned today. For example, in the city of Winnipeg—the city I'm from—even walking around, your mental health is impacted. You never feel safe because there's a target on your back. Those things are often not discussed when we're talking about mental health and creating proper mental health supports.

We know that the experiences are different for non-racialized individuals, or 2SLGBTQIA+ individuals. Can you expand on some of the more unique supports—you talked about the importance of culture and being socially relevant—or unique mental health care models that respond to intersecting identities better than what's currently available in the mental health care system?