Status of Women Committee on Nov. 14th, 2022

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Okay. What is the delay in the agreements if this funding was promised a year ago? It's just to clarify.

We're waiting on an action plan. Is that correct?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Yes. What happened was there was a concern with the $5 billion. The people on the ground wanted to make sure that $5 billion got to mental health and substance use.

With the $4.5 billion, it will be with an action plan that will make sure the money is going—like the $5 billion—to things like integrated youth services, digital health, better mental health in family care, substance use, substance use human resources and the complex needs. Those are the six things the provinces and territories have been working with us on for national standards and working groups. As we work through that, then the money will be assigned.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

Unfortunately, people are dying. We're hearing this throughout the room over and over, and you're very aware, I'm certain, in your position as well. This is a crisis. We need to see funding being allocated to provinces and territories so that people can get the help they need.

This is an emergency, so I'm curious as to why we need to wait to allocate much-needed funding. I understand that this work needs to be done, but what are your thoughts on implementing the funding immediately so that people can get the help they need, and then continuing the work of better understanding? We saw this during the pandemic. When the pandemic hit, we got help to people—I shouldn't say “we”; the government got help to people, along with the work of the NDP, pushing for people to get that help—and that funding was distributed.

Why can we not see a similar model with regard to the mental health supports?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

At the beginning of COVID, that is when we set up Wellness Together Canada, and then in January we announced PocketWell. We are doing what we can, in partnership with the provinces and territories, to take that pressure off.

However, I think there's a very clear understanding that we have to do things differently. Having money where we aren't seeing the transformation, where we aren't seeing the use of peer supports, the use of nurses and social workers.... As you saw with Dr. Vigod's testimony here, in her study, of the 40 people needing perinatal mental health and psychiatric support, only two out of the 40 needed the psychiatrist or this very specialized capacity. The rest were helped at all other levels of the stepped-care model.

We want to make sure we are able—as with the integrated youth services, the perinatal mental health and the post-secondary—to deliver the most appropriate care in the most appropriate place by the most appropriate provider at the most appropriate time, including in the middle of the night with Wellness Together and that opportunity to get help 24-7.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

This is an exciting transformation in the way we do things.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

I really appreciate your desire to have this funded appropriately. I agree; it needs to be done appropriately alongside provinces and territories. People are dying, and the funding needs to be allocated, so I would like to reiterate the concerns by constituents in my riding—and that I'm hearing across Canada, of course—that this funding is much delayed and needs to be implemented.

In addition to that, I just want to segue to the toxic substance crisis we are seeing. In B.C. just in September alone, we saw 171 people die. I'm hearing a lot of promises being made by the Liberal government to address the toxic drug supply crisis. However, unfortunately, over and over I'm not seeing the actual solutions being proposed and the funding being allocated appropriately.

For example, my colleague MP Gord Johns' bill—the actual title of which is the Health-based approach to substance use act and which the Liberals did not support, unfortunately—recently came forward, and these are recommendations—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Okay, Lisa—

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

—based on the expert task force—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

—your time is up.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I have too much to say.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You will come back around. You get two and a half minutes in a second.

Dominique, we're going to pass it over to you for five minutes. We're in a five-minute round: five minutes, five minutes, two and a half, and two and a half.

Go ahead, Dominique.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon, Minister, and thank you for being with us.

This is not an easy topic to discuss, and I sense that you are on the hot seat right now. I sincerely think that the 338 members of the House of Commons are acting in good faith. We all want the problems to be solved, and I think you do too. You want things to advance smoothly.

That said, you seem to be a bit optimistic. You listed a slew of figures so quickly that I had difficulty noting them, a profusion of figures, funding amounts, transfers and programs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I'm mistaken in saying that, of all the witnesses we've heard from since the start of this study, not one has said that things were going well. Everyone said that they were having problems related to money, organization and human resources, and that they were unable to meet the demand.

A woman came to speak to us about an organization here, in Ottawa, not some remote place. I can't remember the organization's name—my apologies to her—but she's single-handedly running her organization.

I think a lot of services have to be provided by community organizations, because they are close to the public, schools, parents, family support centres, and so on.

You began your remarks by saying that our study was timely. Why did you say that?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

It's very important to have an approach to mental health and well-being that applies to all Canadians. Your study is very important in order to increase mental health assistance services and to allow Canadians to better understand their role.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Minister, do you think our study is timely because there's a gap between needs on the ground and the services and support provided by the government to community organizations that help people with mental health problems, particularly young girls?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I'm optimistic because things are changing. Integrated services on the ground for young girls and youth and the potential of virtual services are very important now. Now is the time for transformation, and I hope your report will encourage that.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

That's what we're trying to do today. We're applying a bit of pressure for things to move ahead quickly.

I want to discuss a very specific topic, cyberbullying. Many people are victims of it, particularly young women and girls. Cyberbullying has consequences for the family. Parents and schools are struggling with this problem.

What are you doing in concrete terms to address this problem? What solutions have you come up with to address cyberbullying? Have you implemented any performance indicators to determine whether things are improving? What can you tell us about this?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

With the contribution of the committee and through legislation, we can resolve the issue of cyberbullying. Resolving this problem, which has gotten worse, as you said, is important to parliamentarians.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much, Minister.

We're now going to pass it over for the next five minutes to Sonia Sidhu.

Sonia, you have the floor.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Madam Chair, I think Emmanuella is starting.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Well, then, let's throw it over to Emmanuella.

Emmanuella, go for it.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'll be sharing my time with Sonia Sidhu.

Thank you, Minister Bennett, for being here with us today in order to answer some of our questions on this very important topic.

Many witnesses spoke to us about perinatal mental health. A mother whose mental health suffers will pass that suffering on to her children. There's a link between moms who suffer from postpartum depression, or depression at any point during the perinatal stage, and kids who suffer from depression. These kids eventually turn into adolescents who suffer from depression, and then into adults who suffer from depression. Part of breaking the cycle means taking care of the moms who are in these situations.

Dr. Simone Vigod made a few recommendations. According to Dr. Vigod, perinatal mental illness affects 20% of Canadian pregnancies. That is about 80,000 women per year. She recommended the funding of “training of perinatal health care and lay providers in short-term structured perinatal mental health psychotherapies, so that perinatal mental health care would be integrated.” She also recommended funding “the training of personnel for new specialized perinatal mental health teams for underserved regions”, making specialized care more accessible for all Canadians regardless of where they live.

Minister, I was wondering if you support these funding recommendations and concrete measures to improve perinatal mental health care. Is the federal government doing anything to bring these forward?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Thank you for the question.

I have to say that I have learned a great deal from Dr. Vigod. Women's College Hospital is the reason I accidentally ended up in politics, trying to save that place and its independence. Dr. Vigod was really instrumental in this movement around perinatal mental health, as well as the collaborative....

On March 9, we did a round table with Dr. Vigod. I think we really felt by the end of the round table that this could very easily be an area where there could be national standards very quickly, as to what any woman should be able to expect, wherever she lives.

I think the idea is that the clusters of expertise in perinatal mental health are not properly spread out across the country. It is going to be important that the stepped-care model means that if women are very sick and unwell then they get the best possible perinatal mental health supports, wherever they live.

It speaks to what I was saying to one of your colleagues from Quebec. It means that we also have to make sure that the mom in Moncton or Sudbury can get the best care in French, if that's the way it should be.

It means that we have this opportunity with virtual care and expertise. We can really build out a system where moms are followed properly. Again, the attachment problems and all of the things that you've described, Emmanuella, are hugely important. No mom should fall through the cracks because she wasn't asked how she was doing or because we didn't really understand the depth of her despair or psychosis.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much.

Sonia, go ahead.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, I want to ask about stigmas and stereotypes. I know that in specific cultural communities.... How can we break down these stigmas? How important is it for some communities?