Status of Women Committee on Nov. 14th, 2022

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I forgot that you went to see it.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

With all due respect, Minister Bennett, I think people would really disagree that it is inspiring when you have people who are dying on waiting lists, people who are choosing MAID instead of having access to treatment. We need recovery centres. We need treatment centres. I've been very vocal to you about about Peterborough—Kawartha. We have upwards of 20 people a day dying from overdoses.

Where is the plan? Where is the strategy to intervene, but to offer a place of treatment and recovery?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

As you know, treatment and recovery is a provincial service delivery. What we're trying to do, as a federal government, is to take the pressure off that by using the money we are sending in substance use and addiction programs, mental health innovation and promotion, and to lift up the three million people who are using Wellness Together. That was put in place because of—

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Would you say that it would be important on a national level, as a federal government, to implement a strategy? You mentioned eating disorders and youth mental health—which, if not treated properly, develops into addiction—and access to treatment and recovery. Would it not make sense on a national level, when we talk about a national framework, which you've been very vocal about, that we have a treatment and recovery plan in place?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I think, Michelle, what we're saying is that integrated youth services are that interdisciplinary plan that is the future of health and health care. That is a different way of doing things—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Fantastic. Thank you very much.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

—including the peer support, which is—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to move our time over to Anita Vandenbeld.

I'm going to try to be very cautious with the time. I know there's so much in this, so when I do interrupt, that means quiet in the room and we'll get everything organized.

Anita, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much, Minister, for being here today on this very important study on the mental health of young women and girls. I think the fact that you are a federal minister dedicated just for mental health shows the incredible importance our government puts on this issue of mental health.

I'd like to pick up on something you said in your opening remarks about national standards for integrated youth services. You gave an example about how this has the potential to be truly transformative. My understanding of it is that this is a way of combining community-based health and social services with online tools and resources and creating a one-stop shop.

I wonder if you could explain a little bit more about this and about where we're going with that.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

What's exciting about it, Anita, is that really it began just five or six years ago with “one-stop” in VanGran, and it is now up to 25 sites. It is the future, because it's a stepped-care model. People get the most appropriate care in the most appropriate place by the most appropriate provider at the most appropriate time. One of the appropriate places is virtual.

As that young person walks in the door, they're greeted by a peer support person, someone with lived and living experience. They have a primary care provider. If they need a social worker, a psychologist, or an addiction medicine specialist, even virtually or online, or they need help with housing, help with education or help getting a job, it's all uniquely wrapped around and integrated into the rest of the system. If they've been to emergency on Friday night, their primary care provider knows that. This is what we have to do.

I have to say, Anita, that, as you know, our friend Dr. Karen Breeck, as the physician for the Snowbirds, once asked me why the veterans didn't have this. I hope one day we'll be able to get that kind of wraparound support for everybody.

What's also exciting is that this is for ages 12 to 25. It means that there's already a consensus that you can't let kids drop off the map at 18 in a pediatric setting. This is right to 25. It includes a lot of their challenges post-secondary or other challenges they're facing, including gender identity.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

One of the things you just mentioned was having social services and health supports and other kinds of supports. Why is it important that when we're having this conversation, we're talking not just to mental health professionals but also to teachers and to social workers, we're talking about peer support and we're engaging everyone in a holistic way as opposed to looking at it piecemeal and focusing in on just the mental health and not the whole person?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

It's a really good question. A lot of the children or youth with serious challenges may be in a group home. You actually need to have everyone who is able to help that young person thrive. As we heard from the young woman last Tuesday in VanGran, this is family. It is a place where it's safe, where people feel safe. But as we know, the medical model....

I mean, Tommy Douglas said a long time ago that we shouldn't be waiting for people to get sick and then patch them up. That is the medicine wheel, keeping people in balance mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually. This is an approach that is holistic, with individualized care, and I think it's very exciting.

It's also evidence-based. The CIHR is studying each of these. I think we'll be able to show how cost-effective it is too.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We've heard a lot in this committee about intersectionality and about how people's differing identities impact significantly their mental health and whether or not they're having a mental health crisis or get the supports they need.

You mentioned veterans earlier, but there's also, of course, another group of people in Canada that is under federal responsibility, and that is indigenous peoples. I wonder if you could tell us a bit about their particular needs and the crisis that is affecting indigenous young women and girls and, as well, some of the things that we're able to do about that.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

As you know, a lot of the intergenerational trauma has had a terrible effect in terms of people without parenting, with residential schools and with children being apprehended and taken out of their language and culture. Everything we're trying to do now is to make sure that if the mom needs some help, there's someone in the community—that healthy auntie, a healthy grandparent—who can do wraparound care while mom gets some help and we don't take that child out of the community.

We also know that in the wonderful summit Minister Hajdu had just after Parliament resumed—the indigenous mental wellness summit—it was inspiring to see all of these indigenous-led programs that people know are working. It's very important that we are supporting indigenous ways of knowing and doing, whether it's on the land or whether it's on the importance of language and culture—all of those things, I think—and it's also the fact that within our school systems it has to be led that way.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

We're now going to move for the next six minutes to Andréanne Larouche.

Andréanne, you have the floor.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Minister, I thank you for appearing before the committee today. The evidence that we've heard as part of this study on mental health is terrifying.

Groups are seeking support, so that brings me back to the financial issue, because you talk a lot about amounts that the federal government wants to invest in mental health. However, I remind you that health is the jurisdiction of Quebec and the provinces.

Hearing you talk about money, I think that it would be much better invested in transfers, which the Government of Quebec believes should come with no strings attached, as it has said.

In your mandate letter, you talk about a national action plan and national standards. Quebec doesn't want that.

Above all, Minister, I wonder what expertise do you have that Quebec's health minister and health department don't have. After all, they manage hospitals, the health system and social service providers on a daily basis. What expertise do you have that we don't have in Quebec?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

In my opinion, that's not the issue. It's essential to share best practices and listen to the provinces and territories about their challenges and the solutions. Quebec is a leader in day care and integrated youth services.

Last Wednesday, there was a meeting of integrated youth services networks, and Quebec was there. With its ACCESS Open Minds program, it shows such important leadership.

However, the funding that supports integrated youth services in Quebec is also very important for the entire country. That's part of the 10‑year agreements entered into with the provinces in 2017, so it's a partnership.

Health and health care are the responsibility of all levels of government, but health services are under Quebec's jurisdiction.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Minister, you are aware that there was an attempt to impose standards when you know very well that Quebec and the provinces don't want that. Also, last week, the federal government tried to negotiate bilateral agreements with each province and with Quebec to try to divide and conquer. However, the response was unanimous. The united front still stands, and the demands remain.

You are also aware of the increase in cases. Quebec could invest that money into its health system and try to reduce wait times. As well, Quebec community groups already have their plans for working on the ground with victims.

What you're doing is holding people hostage when they are suffering terribly. I'm extremely concerned to see this paternalistic attitude from the federal government, which thinks these standards will resolve the problems in the health system, particularly in mental health.

Minister, I ask you again: when will you agree to transfer funding to Quebec and the provinces without any conditions? I repeat that I recently received confirmation that Quebec would not accept conditions in the form of national mental health standards. What Quebec wants is a substantial increase in health transfers, up to 35% of the costs of the system—as consistently requested—so that it has more resources to deliver concrete help to people on the ground.

In the next round, I'll come back to what you can do as a federal government. For now, however, I'd like to hear your opinion on this request because, last week, you did not listen to what Quebec and the provinces were calling for.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I hope the discussions about human resources in the health sector and more recent data will be mentioned. There must be expertise for francophones in Quebec, including doctors and specialized nurses. That's very important. For—

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Minister, in the economic statement presented two weeks ago, before the break week, there was no response to the urgent requests, no money to invest in the health system.

You're instead trying to negotiate piecemeal agreements, when you had the opportunity to send a clear message. We are coming out of a health crisis. It's urgent to reinvest massively in the health system and not make cuts. People are waiting.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

We will be able to come back to you, Minister Bennett, in the next round with that.

I'm going to pass it over to Lisa Marie for six minutes. You have the floor.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the minister for being here today.

I first want to confirm some information that I have, to make sure that we're talking about the same information.

When was the $4.5 billion over five years promised for the mental health transfers that you were talking about? When was that first allocated into a budget? Which budget was it?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

The $5 billion in 2017 goes for 10 years. Now, each of the provinces and territories is receiving $600 million more, which is dedicated for mental health and substance use, like the integrated youth services.

The $4.5 billion that was promised in the platform is what we're working on now with provinces and territories to be able to have an action plan that will be a bit closer to what's in the child care agreements, where there is an understanding of getting the data back and being able to see the outcomes—

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

I appreciate that. I hate to cut you off, but I have such a short amount of time.

How much of that $4.5 billion has been allocated to date to provinces and territories?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Not to date, because the agreements will have to be negotiated....