Status of Women Committee on Feb. 8th, 2022

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I want to make sure I have time to ask you another question. Thank you, Ms. Thibaudeau.

I think we agree that the paradigm needs to change and that prevention efforts need to address the idea of coercive control.

My next question is for Ms. Monastesse, the Fédération des maisons d'hébergement pour femmes representative.

You mentioned in your opening statement that your organization had published a brief on Quebec's Bill 2, which concerns family law reform in relation to parent-child relationships. In the brief, you talk about intimate partner violence and the idea of coercive control. The Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights of the federal Parliament actually examined the issue. My fellow member also raised it within the committee's study.

From a criminal justice standpoint, how would including that definition [Technical difficulty—Editor] potentially help to prevent femicides?

[Manon Monastesse]

Beyond criminalizing intimate partner violence, we wish to see coercive control be made a criminal offence.

We work closely with our counterparts in Great Britain and Scotland. In a very short period of time—two years—the prosecution landscape for cases involving violence changed significantly. It's important to point out that coercive control is a denial of freedom, making it a violation of the fundamental rights of mainly women.

In Great Britain and Scotland, where the behaviour is now considered a crime, the number of complaints made in relation to the charge skyrocketed. As a result, women who are victims of intimate partner violence and their children are now better protected.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Quebec is looking to set up a tribunal specializing in domestic violence. How do you think such a tribunal should work? Without a similar mechanism at the federal level, how can there be consistency in the approach?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

The time is up on those questions. I'm going to have to move on.

Leah, I'm passing it over to you for six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I really appreciate the discussion around kids and impacts on kids and youth and violence.

I want to ask a question specific to the child welfare system.

Cora Morgan, who is from the Manitoba First Nations Family Advocate Office, indicated in an article that was published by CBC in 2018 that, “We know that there's been a lot of women who've been missing or murdered in Winnipeg that were part of the child welfare system.”

The article points specifically to a 17-year-old young woman who was found in a field outside of Winnipeg after being kicked out of a group home, and two other women who also perished in 2009 and who also were part of the child welfare system.

I ask that because we talk about impacts of family violence on children, but then the very systems that are supposed to protect children are failing them, resulting in death. Often, many young women, as we know, age out of care into being sexually exploited.

In saying that, I'm wondering—and this is specifically for Ms. Dunn—if there's been research around prevention in the way of supporting families in non-violence by keeping them together instead of separating them as a way of protecting children and families from violence.

[Jennifer Dunn]

There has been work done at our centre around that topic. I regret that I do not have an answer at my fingertips, but I would be able to provide it to [Technical difficulty—Editor] if you would like.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you.

The reason I ask that is we know one of the impacts of colonialism has been the apprehension, whether through institutions, residential schools, child welfare or the sixties scoop, of adoptees, which has resulted in very severe impacts to families and sometimes a normalization of the violence that has been experienced in these institutions, including with young men in these institutions who often don't have support.

When we're talking about support programs for young men who are dealing with violent behaviours, I'm wondering if we are using an intersectional lens in terms of how to best assist a young man in finding alternative ways to be in the world.

I'll put that out to the panel.

[Manon Monastesse]

I'd like to answer Ms. Gazan's question, if I may.

Our approach has always taken intersectionality into account. We consider the various forms of oppression that exist. A lot of research has been done on the child protection system and the challenges around the recognition of family violence [Technical difficulty—Editor]. Simon Lapierre, a University of Ottawa professor, does work in that area.

His book Failure to Protect reveals the extent to which all the responsibility is placed on mothers. They have to protect their children who are being victimized, without the support of the child protection system. Unfortunately, studies also show the extent to which indigenous and immigrant women are subjected to significantly more restrictive measures, under the child protection system.

Every year, our organization puts on a breakfast for men who stand up against violence against women. For a number of years now, we've also worked with CEGEPs, speaking to young men and women about how they can be allies in combatting violence against women. We talk to young people who are studying police science, delinquent conduct, psychosocial intervention and social work, because it's important to discuss how men can be allies, both personally and professionally.

It's essential to hear from men who speak out because, thankfully, they aren't all violent. We need men who are not violent to make their collective and individual voices heard, so they can truly be role models for young men and women.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

That's fantastic.

That was the end of the first round.

We are now down to the last few minutes here at this meeting, so I'm going to mess you guys all up. We're going to do what we did last time: two questions from CPC, two from the Liberals, one from the Bloc, and one from the NDP.

I'm going to pass the floor over right now to you, Laila, for your first question.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful presentations today.

Thank you everyone.

In this committee, one of the things I've been looking at is what kinds of legislative tools we have at our disposal. You have talked about some of the jurisdictions to look at. In the previous panel we were told about Australia and some of their successes. We also talked a bit about Clare's law, which has been introduced in Alberta and Saskatchewan. I'm wondering if you could provide any insight on those jurisdictions and on what we could be looking for going forward?

[Manon Monastesse]

We are also in contact with our counterparts in Australia, where specialized courts are more effective because they here both criminal and civil matters. [Technical difficulty—Editor] it has had quite the impact. These courts have been in place in Australia for 12 years. Not only do they foster a better understanding of domestic and family violence, but they also adopt a much more integrated approach, by simultaneously addressing both criminal and civil components. Under the system, greater support is available to victims as well as to spouses who exhibit violent behaviour.

This type of intervention is much more tailored and produces better results when it comes to rehabilitation and changes in the spouse's behaviour, given that the spouse has a responsibility to appear in court and report—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you.

Sorry to cut you off, but I'm almost out of time. If the other witnesses could answer briefly, I would appreciate it.

[Jennifer Dunn]

I would like to suggest that it would be of the utmost importance for the federal and provincial governments to work together to create consistency across the country. That would be my best [Technical difficulty—Editor]. The results of what has happened to a woman in B.C. would be the same as the results of what has happened to a woman in Ontario—for example, what the man is potentially charged with. Therefore, it goes countrywide as opposed to there being a different story in each province or territory.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Awesome. Thank you so much.

I'm passing it over to Jenna. You have time for two questions.

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

My thanks to the panellists today for just inspiring the knowledge that's gathered with us.

I have a question for Madame Monastesse. You mentioned the importance of the national action plan to end gender-based violence. Feel free to expand. This is a commitment that we're undertaking and that we'll be wrapping up this year, with a lot of input along the way. I'd love for you to elaborate on what you're hoping to see out of that.

[Manon Monastesse]

Other countries have a plan similar to Canada's national action plan on women, peace and security. In many cases, it flows from legislation.

What makes the plan so important is that it's a way for the federal government to show leadership and, as Ms. Dunn said, foster a much more consistent response across the country. By putting a national strategy in place, the federal government can better work with the provinces to ensure a response that is much more tailored to the needs of abused women and their children.

Furthermore [Technical difficulty—Editor], we know that some provinces have action plans but lack policies around specialized courts and other measures. The federal government could take a leadership role, working with the provinces to come up with a much more consistent and accessible approach Canada-wide. We feel strongly that the needs of abused women should be addressed in every part of Canada.

I referred to specialized courts, but clearly, action is required on a number of fronts. In particular, shelters should be more accessible. Quebec has 130, but Manitoba and the Northwest Territories have very few. It isn't about how large the population is; it's about what women need to be safe. Only three shelters exist in the Northwest Territories, where distance is a huge factor. In some cases, they are only accessible by plane. That is a major barrier for women who want to leave an abusive relationship.

We are very hopeful that a national strategy will address all the needs of women no matter where they are in Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Jenna, I'm sorry to interrupt. We have two minutes left.

I would really like a one-minute question and answer—one minute for the Bloc and one minute for the NDP, and then we'll have to wrap it up.

I'm passing it over to the Bloc. Go ahead, Louise.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Monastesse.

Specialized courts play an important role. Sometimes, governments don't wait for national standards before bringing in legislation. I want to commend Quebec on its leadership in relation to a number of domestic violence initiatives. To foster consistency, the federal government should build on those efforts.

My question is about funding, which we talked about. I would think the services that require funding fall under the umbrella of public safety. Do you think funding should be more closely tied to community organizations and the health and social services network?

[Manon Monastesse]

Is that question for me, Ms. Chabot?

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Yes. Go ahead, Ms. Monastesse.

[Manon Monastesse]

In Quebec, shelter funding flows solely from the department of health and social services. We believe funding should be available to organizations across Canada so they can carry out their core mission. That way, they wouldn't constantly have to turn to other departments for funding, including the justice department. We are a strong advocate of funding to support the core mission of shelters, which could apply for funding according to their needs.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much for being so quick.

Leah, you have one minute left for your questions and answers.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Chair.

Many of the witnesses today spoke about the importance of addressing men's violence. In Winnipeg, I'm very proud to say we have groups of young men who mentor each other. They're real local heroes, such as Mitch Bourbonniere, who mentor other men to address violence and end misogyny. A good friend of mine does that as well, Ryan Beardy.

Can you speak about the importance of supporting these initiatives, which are volunteer-led and without support, and the need to invest in programs that allow men and young men to support each other in moving towards non-violence?

[Claudine Thibaudeau]

I'd like to comment, if I may.

Clearly, it's important to support all initiatives aimed at combatting violence, but first and foremost, victims need access to safety supports. I also think it's important to have a common definition of violence and to know what areas the response should focus on. It would then be possible to evaluate the appropriateness of funding requests to make sure that the actions of the organizations that receive funding are in line with the common definition of violence.

Quebec's policy on domestic violence intervention sets out a definition of violence, but that doesn't mean things are always straightforward. Some organizations adopt positions that go against the policy, but they still receive financial support to help victims of domestic violence. We, at SOS violence conjugale, take issue with that, as do our partners. It is our view that organizations working with victims of violence should adopt a consistent approach, in keeping with the commonly held definition of violence. I think the initiatives you mentioned are fantastic. However, for all organizations, particularly those that work with men, I would say they need to be guided by the same principles and philosophy that we are.