Evidence of meeting #48 for Status of Women in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was athletes.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Lanni Marchant  Olympian, Athlete Advocate, As an Individual
Andrea Neil  Former Canadian Women’s National Soccer Team Player and Assistant Coach, As an Individual
Sandra Slater  President, North America Division, World Association of Icehockey Players Unions
Randall Gumbley  Consultant, World Association of Icehockey Players Unions
Andrea Proske  Vice-President, AthletesCAN
Karen O'Neill  Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Paralympic Committee
Ahmed El-Awadi  Chief Executive Officer, Swimming Canada
Erica Gavel  Ph.D. candidate and Vice-Chair, Canadian Paralympic Committee Athlete Council, Canadian Paralympic Committee
Michelle Killins  Director, Paralympic Performance and Pathways, Canadian Paralympic Committee

4:45 p.m.

Former Canadian Women’s National Soccer Team Player and Assistant Coach, As an Individual

Andrea Neil

One of the clauses within my contract from when I worked for Canada Soccer as an assistant coach prohibits me from talking about certain details: financial, personal, organizational. To show up here means I'm invoking the parliamentary privilege to do so, but if I talk negatively against the federation, I risk being sued.

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Okay, so, there seems to be this code of conduct in place that favours the federations and organizations and not necessarily the athletes. Is that...? Do you agree or disagree?

4:50 p.m.

Former Canadian Women’s National Soccer Team Player and Assistant Coach, As an Individual

Andrea Neil

Absolutely. There are, I think, the formal codes of conduct and then the informal codes of conduct, and people within the organization can pick and choose. In my case, when I reported with the Bob Birarda situation, it was anonymous. When I reported certain financial irregularities, it was me and the head coach at the time, and there certainly were retributions at that point. I hadn't signed a contract; retributions were happening. I—

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Can you give me an example of retribution? What does a retribution look like?

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Leah—

4:50 p.m.

Former Canadian Women’s National Soccer Team Player and Assistant Coach, As an Individual

Andrea Neil

A retribution....

So, everything was great before.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Oh, Leah, it's all good.

4:50 p.m.

Former Canadian Women’s National Soccer Team Player and Assistant Coach, As an Individual

Andrea Neil

It was something along the lines of being offered a contract before and then having a great difficulty being paid after. I had a certification that was blocked in the process, as well. Everything was great before. Then after, there were cases, and it went on for two and a half years.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Thank you so much.

Leah, you're really good at this because you know with me that I'll just let you keep on asking, eh?

Thank you so much to the panellists for being here today. I think, as we're shining the light on what we're seeing—this is one of our last days—you're really bringing to light the need to look deeper into some of these things. I do thank you all for coming, and I hope that.... I recognize for, specifically, two of you coming as individuals.... I hope that you will be able to leave this place with no harassment, no trolling, and continue to be strong for coming here and standing up for the rights of all athletes. Thank you very much for putting all of the weight on your shoulders; there's a whole bunch of us who will help you carry that water. Thank you so much.

We're going to suspend just for—

Oh, Randall, you had—

4:50 p.m.

Consultant, World Association of Icehockey Players Unions

Randall Gumbley

Just one—

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Randall, we usually don't. I'm kind of closing.

I will be suspending for about a minute. We have to get some people online, so we'll be switching panels.

Thank you.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

I would like to reconvene with the second panel for today's study.

Today we are welcoming in the room, from AthletesCAN, Andrea Proske, vice-president. Online, from the Canadian Paralympic Committee, we have Karen O'Neill, the chief executive officer; Michelle Killins, the director for Paralympic performance and pathways; as well as Erica Gavel, a Ph.D. candidate and a vice-chair. Online we also have, from Swimming Canada, Ahmed El-Awadi, the chief executive officer.

Each organization will be provided with five minutes for opening comments.

We will turn the floor over to Andrea Proske for the first five minutes.

4:55 p.m.

Andrea Proske Vice-President, AthletesCAN

Thanks so much.

My name is Andrea Proske. I'm a rower, a two-time World Cup medallist, Olympic champion and AthletesCAN vice-president. I also stand before you as a survivor of a toxic training environment. Sadly, it is not a new story. However, if you'll bear with me, I also bring concrete proof that Olympic medals can be won through culture.

Unlike other athletes you may have heard from, I began sport at the mature age of 27, as a hotel manager with years of leadership experience. En route to the national team, I would brave numerous setbacks and serious injuries, including being struck by an SUV. Through it all, I persevered, because I wanted nothing more than the privilege of wearing the Canadian maple leaf on the world stage.

Neither my decade of real-world experience nor my resilience would spare me from the abuse that followed. While Rowing Canada shone on the world stage, for four years, our national training centre environment allowed for 46 women to experience manipulation, isolation and abuse by an autocratic coach who ruled our lives, Dave Thompson. Physical punishments were meted out for perceived indiscretions, teammates were seen as rivals to be beaten, selection race results were kept secret and booking time with a physiotherapist considered a sign of weakness. He controlled the minutia of my life, restricting me from seeing health care professionals, mental health professionals and talking to my support network.

The ripples of his culture of fear went well beyond the athletes. I'll never forget a support staff worker telling me, I wanted to quit so many times. but I couldn't because I knew for you women it would be worse for you if I left: You'd have no one to protect you. Every time I was told I was too fat, too slow, too difficult, I believed him a little more. The environment became normalized, steeped in favouritism. He was a master manipulator who openly told me he preferred working with younger athletes. They followed directions. They didn't ask questions.

I worried when athletes commented that he would end phone calls with “I love you” and not hang up until they said it back. I worried about his buying gifts for them. I worried about the one-on-one coach's meetings in his hotel rooms. My deepest fears were realized later when I learned about the private dinners, sexual harassment and sexual abuse that my teammates endured.

I'm trying to forgive myself for silently witnessing this abuse. In many ways, the Olympic medal came at the cost of my own self-worth. Too many times I had to choose between my moral compass and my Olympic dreams.

In 2020, Rowing Canada quietly let Dave Thompson go before a safe sport investigation would confirm the bullying, harassment and abuse. He went on to work for other countries, and even an all-girls school. There are no words for how angry this makes me.

However, I promised you a happy ending. Our wonderful new coach, Michelle Darvill, inherited a group of burned-out, broken women and immediately prioritized rebuilding culture, trust and teamwork. She would say strange things like, “Good job. I'm proud of you.” At the time, it felt nothing short of revolutionary.

We were encouraged to show our unpolished selves, be vulnerable and hold each other to account. Gone was the secrecy of the previous regime, replaced by complete transparency and open communication. For the first time as a national team member, I felt I owned my journey. I was creating culture from the bottom up. I was driving a training environment that I could thrive in. We were reimagining high performance. I welcome any questions to speak more deeply on this case study.

I have since seen my story reflected in countless others across Canada. We are witnessing some of the strongest women in Canada reach their collective breaking point. If 2020 was a time to listen, then 2023 must be a time for action. Here are three steps:

One, OSIC services need to be accessible to all levels of sport and adequately funded, with culture tied to NSO funding.

Two, we need a comprehensive and compulsory education for sports stakeholders on all types of abuse. We need bystander training.

Three, we need a restorative justice approach that does not cause victim retraumatization. I am so grateful for being here today, but, as you can see, it is tough to sit through this emotional scar tissue and relive it.

In closing, when I started working with Michelle, I knew it was up to us to prove that her method of coaching could win medals. Here I stand, Olympic champion, showing you another pathway to gold. It's not an easy one. You will need to show the perseverance and confidence and courage that women across the nation have shown.

Every athlete knows the podium doesn't come overnight, but I know this: Canada can stand on the world stage as a champion.

Thank you.

5 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Thank you so much, Andrea. We are here to support you. Thank you so much for coming. We're standing up with you and standing by your side as you come forward. Thank you.

I'm now going to turn it online. We'll have the Canadian Paralympic Committee. I'm not sure who is going to take the floor for the committee, but you will have five minutes.

It looks like Karen has her microphone there.

Karen, you have five minutes.

5 p.m.

Karen O'Neill Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Paralympic Committee

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I would like to begin by acknowledging that the land on which we gather is the traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people. I respectfully recognize the first nation, Inuit and Métis peoples across Canada.

In listening today to the experiences shared by Lanni, Andrea and Sandra, I would also like to recognize all who have come before to share how they faced abuse, and those who still live with trauma silently.

I'm accompanied by Paralympian CPC board member and athletes' council vice-chair Erica Gavel; and CPC staff member Michelle Killins, who is the director of Paralympic performance and pathways. We are all available to answer any of your questions when the time arises.

The CPC, or Canadian Paralympic Committee, is a non-profit organization with 27 member sport organizations dedicated to strengthening the Paralympic movement and inclusion through para sport. We work to create a safe, inclusive and welcoming culture, a culture and environment that supports each participant, while respecting and valuing their experience, voice and diversity, whether on the field of play or in their development as individuals and leaders. We are guided by athlete leadership and experience to create greater access to opportunity that is safe, supportive and welcoming.

I'd like to share a few examples.

Our flagship athlete discovery program, the Paralympian Search, was consistently yielding significantly lower participation from women, a reflection of systemic under-representation of women with a disability in sport. In response, Paralympian Elisabeth Walker Young, who also works in diversity, equity and inclusion, was hired to develop the framework for a pilot event focused on women's needs with the goal of providing a safe and welcoming space for women and girls on their para sport journey.

Also, to better understand women and girls' experiences in para sport, several projects were conducted to support safe and inclusive environments. They included working with national sport organizations that collected data from team members so that their athlete experiences and voices were heard, were held, and would lead to positive change.

As well, a research study on safe, inclusive and accessible sport was completed by Paralympian Stephanie Dixon and her colleagues. This and other Paralympic-specific research on safe sport were completed because most data and insights from current research were not as inclusive nor as representative of a Paralympic athlete's experiences. In addition, at a leadership level the Paralympic movement is strengthened by the fact that the CPC board of directors includes a high ratio of female Paralympians: Erica Gavel, Michelle Stilwell and Cindy Ouellet. In addition, our CPC athletes' council also includes Paralympians Ina Forrest, Erica Gavel, Amy Burk and Abi Tripp.

These individuals reflect their own experience directly on diversity, equity, inclusion and safe sport and, through their leadership, contribute towards reimagining our sports system going forward.

Several building blocks to a safe sport culture across Canada include absolutely ensuring that more women, more diversity and more athletes with a direct voice are supported in leadership roles. Second, the concept of education was mentioned several times—to be clear, on not only what it looks like when it's not safe, but also on what a quality, inclusive and safe sport environment and culture looks like.

Governance was also referenced several times this afternoon. We need to look at some of the assumptions and implicit biases in our current governance infrastructure and policy.

Lastly, the federal, provincial and territorial governments must ensure strong, collective and focused leadership to address safe, inclusive and quality sport.

In conclusion, the CPC believes in belonging through sport. We are committed to a quality, inclusive, welcoming and safe sport environment. This is non-negotiable. We are definitely committed to doing better.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Thank you very much.

Ahmed El-Awadi, you have the floor for five minutes.

5:05 p.m.

Ahmed El-Awadi Chief Executive Officer, Swimming Canada

Thank you for inviting me to speak here today on behalf of Swimming Canada.

I would like to thank the committee members for all their hard work and investment in this imperative topic. I would especially like to acknowledge the athletes, victims, their families and their friends for having the courage to be here and share their experiences and their stories.

I've been the CEO since July 2013. I would like to share a glimpse of our sport and our organization. We consist of over 75,000 registrants in addition to thousands of volunteers. Our women's team is in the top six in the world, and accounts for many of the best performances Canada has ever seen. Across officials and athletes, we are virtually fifty-fifty in terms of men and women. In participation with the Lifesaving Society, an estimated 1.5 million children are in various types of swimming lessons across the country.

We are an approximately $9 million organization. About two-thirds of that comes from government sources. Because we are relatively well funded in comparison with some smaller sports, I'd like to recognize that we've been able to implement some safe sport practices, projects, programs and systems that many other NSOs might not be able to. We feel that we've done many things well, but like all sports, we need to look in the mirror and see where we can do better.

When I started there, there was a lack of women in leadership positions and a lack of human resources in general. We've grown from 10 staff to 50 staff. The majority of our employees are women, including multiple senior managers and one of our senior directors. Four of our nine board members are women, including our current president and our past president. With the assistance of the Canadian Olympic Committee, the Canadian Paralympic Committee and the Government of Canada, we have developed a safe sport system focusing on education, prevention and response.

We consulted heavily with our friends at USA Swimming, who had a head start on us. They were glad to share tools and resources with us. Our provincial sections and the Canadian Swimming Coaches Association all worked with us to navigate a very complex jurisdictional challenge, lack of available funds and resources, and, specifically, complex case management.

In 2016 we began to roll out a national program that addressed issues, complaints and allegations via an independent safe sport officer. We strengthened our response by signing on with OSIC. Our existing program will remain in place as our OSIC partnership grows in areas that they may not cover. We want all participants to have a safe place to come forward in a safe environment during the most difficult of situations.

OSIC is a key building block for the sport community to continue strengthening the safety of all participants. It will take time for everyone to understand OSIC's role and to start to see the positive effects. It will need to be supported all the way down to the grassroots level. Everyone in our sport is committed to ensuring a healthy and positive environment and to maintaining a safe and inclusive culture for all.

Once again, thank you for your important work with this committee. We welcome any questions you may have as we work together to make sport as safe as possible.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Thank you very much.

Thank you to everyone for your testimony.

We'll now go to our first round of questions, with six minutes for each party.

We'll start with Anna Roberts for six minutes.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have a couple of questions I'd like to address to Ahmed.

Were you the director of Water Polo Canada at some point?

5:10 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Swimming Canada

Ahmed El-Awadi

Previously, I was the director of Water Polo Canada.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON

What year would that have been?

5:10 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Swimming Canada

Ahmed El-Awadi

That would have been 2005 to 2013.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON

Were you aware of the abuse by Dan Berthelette, Pat Oaten and Guy Baker, and what they had committed under your employment?

5:10 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Swimming Canada

Ahmed El-Awadi

Let me go through those three. Some of the issues with Dan Berthelette predated my start there. Patrick Oaten was there during my time. We did not receive complaints or allegations against him during my time there. Guy Baker came on near the end of my term at Water Polo Canada, and was dealt with by another CEO.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON

Are you named in this lawsuit?