Status of Women Committee on March 20th, 2023

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much. I have a very quick follow-up.

I asked that question because the Butterfly Asian and Migrant Sex Workers Support Network indicated in an article from March 2019 that racialized and migrant workers—I'm reading directly—“are often subjected to surveillance, harassed, arrested, detained, and deported, even when there is no evidence that they have engaged in human trafficking.”

They are less likely to go forward should they be in trouble because of how they are criminalized for what they are doing, and it actually places them more at risk. It's not surprising to me that in the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls they actually support a legalization of sex work as harm reduction and protection for women, girls and two-spirit people.

This is a question for both of you. We know that there was research done. It was titled “Trafficking at the Intersections: Racism, Colonialism, Sexism, and Exploitation in Canada”. The article concludes that:

...discourse about human trafficking is...often disconnected from a critique of racial and colonial oppression. Public policies prioritize law enforcement, support for victims, and individual vigilance, but leave matters of structural change, community and personal healing, and social justice under-explored. An effective fight against human trafficking must also work to ameliorate the underlying structural oppressions and historical legacies....

Kyla Clark, I know that you mentioned housing. You spoke about kids aging out of care. In the national inquiry, I know that aging out of care and kids in care are seen as a pipeline for MMIWG.

For example, you spoke, Madam Drydyk, about the issue around housing. I put forward a bill for a guaranteed basic livable income. I think it would be a game-changer, for example, for kids aging out of care, to provide people—whether they're in sex work or even trying to exit sex trafficking—real resources and real choices and even not to be exploited in violent relationships or situations. As you said, it's not “purses” that people want. It's housing, food and shelter that lure a lot of people into sex trafficking.

I'm wondering if you could comment on that

I'll start with you, Kyla Clark, and then I'll move to Madam Drydyk.

[Kyla Clark]

I think you've touched on a really important point in terms of a livable wage. Another barrier to this is that victims and survivors often don't have any identification. That's a barrier to housing, bank accounts and things like that.

There's a lot of talk about.... A lot of the laws have been made around this idea of an ideal victim: They're white, they're straight and they're part of the heteronormative community. I think it's really important that we are bringing in and talking about the MMIWG, individual identities and youth who identify as 2SLGBTQ+.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you very much for that.

Go ahead, Madam Drydyk.

[Julia Drydyk]

I absolutely agree that we need comprehensive social change to actually end human trafficking, which is my and my organization's mission. A lot of this is coming about because there are individuals who are preying on people who are vulnerable because of systemic forms of oppression and discrimination.

While there is a lot of effort going into unpacking and unlearning a lot of what our institutions have imposed on us over the years, the legacies of racism, colonialism and sexism in our policing systems are still experienced by people every single day. That is also why we say that you can't arrest your way out of this problem. It is about deep-seated social inequalities. A lot of that comes from income inequality, poverty—

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I want to ask you a question about that. I've been very clear that I think we need to refund communities and put those resources into communities rather than into policing oppression and human rights violations. Would you agree?

[Julia Drydyk]

We have seen some of the best outcomes where they've done just that, for example, in Durham region and other areas where victim services are the primary outreach and communication tool to engage with people who might be experiencing sexual exploitation and cops take the back seat. I agree.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you. Perfect.

We have one more round. In terms of minutes, we'll go with five, five, two and a half, and two and a half, and then we'll call it quits.

I'll start with you, Michelle, for five minutes. I know that you're sharing your time with Anna.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Yes. I'm sharing my time, so I'll be as quick as I can.

Thank you both for being here. It's great witness testimony. It sounds like you've maybe worked with some of the folks in my riding of Peterborough—Kawartha as well, so I really appreciate your information.

I'm really curious to know whether you've ever gone down the avenue of working with former perpetrators or restored perpetrators who could help in better understanding what makes a human trafficker, and going at it from another angle of helping the victim. As well, from an education perspective, how do we educate our young boys, our young people, on how not to do that?

I guess I'll start with you, Ms. Drydyk.

[Julia Drydyk]

Timea Nagy has been on the forefront of this, but I'll share some of what she has learned. Just like individuals can be lured and groomed into being trafficked victims, we see that traffickers are also lured and groomed into being traffickers. Again, this really looks at the underpinning of the issue of how Canadians are growing up to do such horrible things. A big part of it is misogyny and patriarchy, but it's also what happens when you see such high rates of poverty and growing income inequality. It means we're forced to go at each other instead of working together.

I think a holistic approach is really needed to get at the root cause of how it's possible that anyone treats anyone in this way.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Go ahead, Anna.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to refer to a case from January 18, 2018—I know that this is a justice law case—where a perpetrator had his conviction overturned on May 18, 2022. Instead of serving the 17 and a half years he was supposed to serve, he was able to cut it down to six years. He will be out in less than six months.

You mentioned earlier the use of schools and community groups to help with safe spaces. You also mentioned that they are afraid of police officers. You stated earlier the fear that people have in coming forward. I think our laws are broken. I think the penalty does not meet the crime. It doesn't fit the crime. I have spoken to police officers and they're frustrated. In the particular case I referred to that was overturned, the young lady, who was referred to as “PL” and who won't be named, was afraid to come forward. She knew that her perpetrator was going to be out on bail. He had threatened her and her family. How do we prevent that?

Julia, would you like to take that?

[Julia Drydyk]

Yes. These are all very real and rational concerns that victims and survivors have. It makes perfect sense not to go through the criminal justice system when this is what they're dealing with. There are revolving doors when it comes to traffickers coming out and then threatening potential victims. We also see that court cases take two to three times longer than any other court cases in Canada, with really low conviction rates.

I think we also really need to look at latent bias within the judiciary. Too often victims, when they're being cross-examined, are treated like they did this to themselves. Excuse my language, but they are slut-shamed. They are told that they made decisions and that this was their boyfriend. It's similar to how we've seen other forms of rape and sexual violence cases not perform in the best interests of victims and actually achieving justice.

I think we need to flip the dial and provide more training of the judiciary.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Would you agree that this bail system is not working for the victims? From what I've heard, speaking to police officers, they're just as frustrated. They put these guys behind bars. Then they're let out and they go ahead and basically once again victimize the victim, who is afraid. They're afraid to come out. They're afraid because they fear for their lives and their family's lives.

We have to fix the bail system before we can get this problem fixed. Do you agree?

[Julia Drydyk]

I agree. Also, many victims and survivors choose to just escape and exit. They'll go to a safe house and put their safety first before risking it in order to engage in criminal justice system. There is not adequate safety and protection. I would say that our criminal justice system is failing survivors of sexual violence and failing survivors of human trafficking in Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

We're now going to go, online, to Sonia Sidhu.

You have five minutes.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to both of you having great testimony. My first question is for Ms. Drydyk.

In Ontario, research has shown that 90% of victims are female and 42% were first trafficked before the age of 18. What are the primary factors that contribute to the increased risk of human trafficking, especially with women, girls and gender-diverse people in Canada?

Also, we talked about the migrant workers. Any population that is on a study visa is also impacted.

[Julia Drydyk]

That is very accurate. We see that international students are vulnerable to exploitation.

The list of potential risk factors is almost never-ending. It comes down to a place of not having basic needs met and being socially isolated. You also see the compounding issues of racism, colonialism and sexism on top of that.

There's not one thing to look for. When you look for people who might be vulnerable to human trafficking or be at risk, it's individuals who might be having problems at home. They don't know where they're going to sleep that night. They're not getting consistent food. They're not having stability in their lives.

Again, it's having a country where there is an actual strong and robust safety net for every child to have a safe adult to go to. Not everyone is born into a family where it's their parents. It's making sure that our school systems and community networks are well equipped and framed to make sure that no child falls behind.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

I have a follow up question.

Your 24-7 confidential hotline is in multiple languages. How can we work together to integrate prevention with schools, with institutions and with other populations that you just mentioned?

[Julia Drydyk]

If we're going to end human trafficking, this is all about prevention.

I often tell people that if something feels wrong in their gut, it probably is. The benefit of our being a completely confidential hotline that's independent of law enforcement and of government is that we're able to talk to someone based on their unique circumstances.

Sometimes people are afraid because they're worried it's like 911, whereas we're completely the opposite. We're able to share information, be a trauma-informed and safe place to talk, and just kind of work through what the situation is and what their options are.

Again, it's 24-7 and it's available in over 200 languages in Canada.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

How does your centre work with raising public awareness? What else can we do so it can be more effective to work to end human trafficking in Canada?

[Julia Drydyk]

We do what we can as a charitable organization to do national education awareness campaigns.

What we really need to see, as a whole-of-Canada perspective, is that all provinces are acting similarly and in line. For example, the Government of Ontario has invested more than any other province—even probably per capita—in anti-human trafficking initiatives. They're also mandating school boards to provide anti-human trafficking education in the schools. Not all provinces are doing that.

We know that there are human trafficking corridors going through Ontario. Those are extending across the country. Really, if any province does not have a human trafficking strategy in place, then people are going to start falling between the cracks. Again, traffickers will go to those jurisdictions where they're less likely to be detected and where it might be easier to lure, groom and profit off of this exploitation of our youth.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Clark, do you want to add to that?

[Kyla Clark]

I would add that a lot of our youth struggle to even identify that they are being trafficked or exploited. That can take months, if they ever do decide. That is a barrier to getting them the help they need.

In terms of the prevention piece, I think it's important that we are teaching kids in school about healthy relationships and what that looks like, and about Internet safety. I think that will arm them and serve them well when they're faced with these situations going forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You have 30 more seconds.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

For the last comment, can the faith communities help them in that mission or provide some more resources?