Status of Women Committee on April 17th, 2023

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you.

My other question is to Constable Joy Brown.

When we were in Sault Ste. Marie, they had labels, and I believe we spoke about it when we met the department in Peel. It's great, because they have the picture of the individual, but we didn't notice it all over, just in specific areas. We also spoke to the Halifax police on how they're educating, and they're doing it as well.

Do you think a program like that right across the country, sharing information with all law enforcement from province to province, including the RCMP at all levels and the OPP and whatever, would help us to support the victims and stop the demand?

[Cst Joy Brown]

Yes, definitely. That's why we mentioned in our brief that having a national database where we can share information with other jurisdictions and law enforcement agencies would be very, very helpful.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Would you say that a law has to be in place to change that? I know there are privacy issues, but would you say that if we could work from province to province, it would stop the demand? Well, it can't stop the demand, but would it help to reduce the demand?

I don't think that the charges and the fines are enough to deter some of these perpetrators. Would you agree with that?

[Cst Joy Brown]

I would have to agree.

Stiffer fines definitely would help, but even being able to share the information from province to province, jurisdiction to jurisdiction, would be very helpful as well.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

I was just told that I have 15 seconds left. I just want to thank you for being here.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

It's a hard chair up here. Thanks so much.

We're now going to move it over to Sonia Sidhu.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. You're in the hard chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for the work you are doing on the ground. I'm from Peel, and to the Peel police with all their agencies, thank you for hosting us and giving information about the reality of what's happening on the ground.

My first question is to Jody Miller.

In Peel we have a model to address human trafficking that includes a safe house, a transition house and a dedicated service hub. Can you expand on how it will be more effective with dedicated services and then how survivors can feel safe? I know we were there to see that, but can you expand on that?

[Jody Miller]

I can definitely talk about having these dedicated supports, as many people have talked about in a lot of presentations here. We all know that the needs of survivors are vast, and providing supports to them through one agency does not meet their needs. Really, it requires a collaborative approach to have those types of services and community come together so that it's not just one program or one service providing them.

For instance, in the nCourage hub, there's a collection of a number of agencies. There are funded agencies such as us, as well as Our Place Peel and Catholic Family Services, that provide supports and connections, but we also work with 40-plus other service agencies in our community that also provide supports and services that are accessed through the nCourage Hub so that we're able to ensure that survivors are able to come to one spot. We ensure that they do not have to tell their story multiple times and that they are able to access the support they need. That would include the houses. We do have a dedicated safe house and a transition house to support survivors.

We talked in our recommendations about the need for that full continuum, because we still do not have immediate beds for survivors who may not be ready or able to disengage from traffickers or for those who do not want to engage in intensive supports that may be associated with safe houses or transitional houses.

We need to be able to provide multiple supports as well as on the other end, when survivors are exiting these supports. They also need rent geared to income, portable housing benefits and other types of independent housing and rent supplements that help them to be able to access the housing they need instead of being put back into precarious situations where that they could be more readily victimized.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you.

My next question is to Constable Brown. I know that the Peel Regional Police has committed to training all officers on human trafficking from a survivor perspective by the end of 2023. Can you comment on how this will improve the response on the ground?

[Cst Joy Brown]

The survivor-led training that's provided by Timea Nagy is very comprehensive. It's three-hour training, and it talks about things that you should look at as a police officer who's on the road, different signs that you may come across that somebody could potentially be trafficked.

It goes into great detail. It's often segmented into different modules. As I said, it's quite intensive in three hours. It gives the officer an opportunity to really gain all that knowledge they would need, because oftentimes human trafficking displays itself as something else. It gives them the opportunity to take that second look and wonder if this could possibly be a situation of somebody being trafficked.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you.

As you're the chair of the Peel region human trafficking committee, how do you work with schools, colleges, universities and community agencies in Peel? Do you think that all levels of government, if they work collaboratively, can bring an end to the human trafficking in Canada? What do you think? Can you tell us?

[Cst Joy Brown]

Definitely collaboration is the key. No one agency can do this alone.

This is why we started our committee in 2015. We have been working together for a number of years, looking at opportunities to fill some of the gaps that we're seeing.

Jody spoke specifically about housing and the nCourage anti-human trafficking services hub. These are things that came out of the committee, things that we are able to write to as a committee. With the anti-human trafficking services hub, we need all of our 40-plus partners to be able to combat human trafficking.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

You were telling us in your testimony that you laid charges in 127 cases, which was double the number of the previous year, but still you think that the reports are under-reported, that victims are not reporting.

How do we encourage victims or survivors so they can get support?

[Cst Joy Brown]

I really think that education is the key. I believe Andrea Scott spoke about that earlier as well. That individual may not come forward, but there is an opportunity for someone to really look at the signs that somebody may be trafficked, and maybe that person is apt to come forward on their behalf.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thanks so much.

We're now going to pass it over for the next six minutes to Andréanne.

Andréanne, you have the floor.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being with us today.

Mr. Catenaccio and Ms. Miller, your expertise is very interesting. Although my initial questions have mainly been for the police representatives, Ms. Brown and Ms. Scott, feel free to add anything if you wish.

In connection with this study, we've heard a lot about how the victims mistrust the system. This stood out when we heard from the first group of witnesses today. This mistrust has many consequences. Among these is the fact that victims are afraid to report incidents to the police. Exploitation remains a hidden crime. All we see is the tip of the iceberg. It's hard to get real numbers and obtain a true picture of human trafficking and sexual exploitation.

I had a question in mind that I haven't asked yet, and it's related to Quebec's report on rebuilding trust, called "Rebâtir la confiance", which addresses spousal violence issues. I'd like to talk about one of the measures proposed in the report by placing it in the context of our study on human trafficking.

According to the report, victims need better protection because they don't trust the system. That being the case, could e‑bracelets, which are sometimes used in certain circumstances, also be used to protect victims of human trafficking after they have reported someone? Do you think that would indicate to victims that we've heard them and are trying to protect them?

My question is for the police representatives, but the other two witnesses should also feel free to comment.

[Sgt Andrea Scott]

Sure, I can take that one if you want.

I'm not familiar with the e-bracelet, but I think there is definitely a benefit in providing a victim with a sense of security after they come forward.

In lots of the issues that we see, it's just the system we have to work within. We end up revictimizing our survivors again and again, because by the time they get to the court process 18 months or two years down the road, they've had to recount and tell their story four or five times, and then again be retraumatized in court. That is a huge issue with our court system in general. Our Crowns do a great job to alleviate the issues as best they can, but it's the system we have to work within. I think we need to come to a better solution.

Do victims need to be present in court? Can we go with a video statement? Do we need to retraumatize them by having them appear in person?

I think an e-bracelet would be beneficial from a security aspect, though.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Ms. Brown, do you have anything to add?

If not, I'd just like to thank you and say that it was a pleasure to meet you last week. I'd also, like my colleague, like to congratulate you on your award.

[Cst Joy Brown]

[Technical difficulty—Editor]

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Ms. Brown isn't answering. I don't know if that's because she has nothing to add about the e‑bracelet or because she is experiencing technical problems.

[Cst Joy Brown]

Is there a translation?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Can you hear the translation?

[Cst Joy Brown]

No, I'm sorry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Okay, we're going to suspend for a second and check in with the interpreters.

Leah, would you start speaking so that we can see if there is any translation? You're our tester.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I can hear the translation.