Status of Women Committee on May 1st, 2023

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you so much for that.

It doesn't sound like very much has changed since 2016, which is really unfortunate, because it points to the fact that there are definitely systemic and structural barriers that expose indigenous women, girls and 2-spirit people to that increased rate of violence.

I wonder if both of you could answer what the changes are that need to happen.

I realize, Fay, that you struggle with that. Maybe we'll start with Kathleen to answer that question, and if you feel you'd like to, Fay, I would love to hear from you, as well.

[Kathleen Quinn]

Thank you so much.

I'm seeing some encouraging shifts in a couple of ways.

One is that there are more female police officers, which begins to shift the culture, as well. Two is that in Alberta and in, I think, Peel region and a few other jurisdictions across the country, women who are survivors of trafficking or exploitation have been hired, or young women who are very committed and skilled workers are working with police. They are the frontline responders and their role is to listen and to help that woman to safety, however she defines it.

A woman may never report to police. It may take a year before she decides to report to police, but the role of those safety network coordinators and peer advocates is, first of all, to ensure that safety for that woman and that her basic needs are met, and that she is able to begin to move away from the trafficking situation.

I think we need more of those models across the country. That's what I'll say right now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Lori, I'm going to provide you an extra minute, rather than come back, so you have one extra question if you want to ask it now.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you.

I want to ask about the resource extraction sector, because I know there was a study about the connection that seems to exist with the resource extraction sector...and how sex trafficking seems to be connected to it.

I wonder if both of you could share testimony on the resource extraction sector and what that connection is to sex trafficking.

[Kathleen Quinn]

Thank you.

Fay, would you like to go first?

[Fay Blaney]

You can, Kathleen, since you've been doing work in this area.

[Kathleen Quinn]

Okay, thank you.

Again, I'm going to draw strength and insight from indigenous women who are really leading this work in Alberta. I mentioned the woman who, for the second year, has been invited to educate staff of Enbridge, one of the pipeline companies. I also support the indigenous advisory monitoring committee for the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion. People from different first nations communities and Métis settlements are really trying to see what they can do to turn that around.

I think, again, it's the attitudes of men, when they're away from their home communities, that they can meet whatever their needs are with the women who are vulnerable and who are around them. I think corporations do need to take the lead and insist on education about sexual exploitation and consent and murdered and missing indigenous women. That needs to be a real commitment.

We're hoping that Trans Mountain will sign on, just like Enbridge, for this education.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Fay, I'm just looking at the time, and we unfortunately just don't have lots of it. We're going to ask that you do your answer in writing. We would be grateful.

We have just two more rounds of questions, and I'm reducing them to three minutes each.

Dominique, you have three minutes. I'll start with you.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Good afternoon, ladies. Thank you for being with us this afternoon.

What I understand about the file we're studying today is that there are those who organize trafficking, human trafficking, who profit from it or buy the service, and there are those subjected to it, obviously. My view is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of people eager to see the issue of trafficking resolved.

Ms. Quinn, you mentioned a few possible solutions earlier, specifically an initiative inspired by women who are survivors and activists. That's a good sign. Those are good actions.

Are we acting equally on all three of those fronts right now?

Are there aspects we're more focused on that negatively impact the others, or that completely obscure them, which we should also look into?

That's question probably requires over 20 minutes to answer, and we only have three.

Many hypotheses and suggestions were put forward. Earlier, witnesses told us that it's not going as well as we think. Specifically, there's a lack of funds.

On which fronts, first and foremost, should we focus on?

What do you think, Ms. Quinn?

[Kathleen Quinn]

We always have to keep our focus on those who have been harmed. We have to increase the supports and services.

At the same time—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Excuse me for interrupting you, but there's a problem with interpretation.

Oh, is it working? Good.

Okay, go ahead.

[Kathleen Quinn]

Again, we are always called to support those who are suffering and exploited, and we need to go upstream and work to stop what's causing the harm. My advocacy on that end is the education of boys and men about consent and not participating in exploitation or trafficking. If we don't turn that around, we will continually be creating more and more services to support those who are harmed.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

I fully agree with you.

Ms. Blaney, do you have hope that the situation will improve? You expressed some reservations earlier.

[Fay Blaney]

I would like to see the police apply the PCEPA law across the country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

We're going to pass it online now to Emmanuella.

Emmanuella, you have three minutes. Go ahead.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you.

I'd like to begin by thanking our witnesses for being with us today.

We've heard a lot about education and the role it could play in helping the situation, but I'll stick with a question on something that I'm curious to hear your thoughts on.

I'll start with you, Ms. Quinn. You called for an increase in law enforcement in order to help victims of sex trafficking and in order to come down hard on those who are traffickers, but we have heard in this committee from sex workers who have come to speak to us about how they often feel endangered. A big part of the reason is that there isn't a labour code, obviously, for sex work, and there are often consequences for women who are engaging in sex work, be it by choice or not. Many women do feel that they don't necessarily have a choice, in that it's the only thing they can do, or they do it when they're in a situation where they feel they need to do this.

In your view, what is a good way to balance the approach? What is a way to ensure that the government can come down hard on those who are trafficking while also protecting victims of trafficking and in general victims of sexual assault and abuse when they are in these types of situations, given the fact that sex work in itself is not illegal?

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this.

[Kathleen Quinn]

Thank you. It is a very complex question that requires the best of all of us.

I do see that there is a continuum. I acknowledge that there are those who identify as sex workers who have high autonomy, no trauma history, no poverty and high negotiating control. However, that is a very small minority of people. The majority are in the survival or circumstantial sex trade and then trafficking.

I once looked at the confluence of the Fraser River and the Thompson River, at where those two rivers come together. The waters mix. It is very challenging. The men have told us that they cannot tell who's doing this because they need money to pay their rent, and they don't know if the person is being trafficked. It's very hard to figure that out.

We do need to really work on some of the bigger things. I support the call for a guaranteed livable income. We did a study once during the pandemic where we added money into women's household incomes and asked them what they thought. They said that if there were a guaranteed basic income, there wouldn't be a need for sex work. Right away, that tells us something right there—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Kathleen, thank you so much. I don't mean to interrupt you, but we're coming to end of our entire time here.

On behalf of the committee, I would greatly like to thank the two of you for coming. Thank you very much for bringing forward your testimony. If you have any additional information, such as the information that Anita and I were probably both writing down at the same time, we would love to see it.

Members, we will now conclude for the day. I would remind you that your sports recommendations are due today. We're asking that they be in both French and English, if possible.

We will see everybody on Thursday at 3:30.

The meeting is adjourned.