Evidence of meeting #67 for Status of Women in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was human.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:25 p.m.
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Just on that, you called for decriminalization. Again, I think when you make somebody illegal or criminalize them, you place their safety in jeopardy.
Is decriminalization a critical piece to ensuring safety?
12:25 p.m.
Executive Director, SWAN Vancouver, Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform
Yes, absolutely.
12:25 p.m.
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
In terms of options and in terms of the human rights lens—I've asked you all the questions this round; I'll ask other people—there is guaranteed livable basic income. That's a bill I'm pushing because we talk about choice, but we don't really give people a true choice. We don't have accessible, affordable rent geared to income. We don't have a guaranteed livable basic income.
If we want to address this in a real way, systemically, do you think that one of the ways to do it is to put in place a guaranteed livable basic income?
12:25 p.m.
Executive Director, SWAN Vancouver, Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform
Yes, absolutely. I think that is a big piece of it.
Like you said, it comes down to choice and the options that we have as people living in society and living in capitalism. I do believe that a universal basic income would make a big impact for people. However, I will say that it needs to be accompanied by decriminalization and destigmatization of working in the sex industry because some people might still choose to do it.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
Thanks very much. That's the end of the first round.
I'm just going to bring to everybody's attention that there will be a vote at 1:02, so the bells will be ringing in a couple of seconds. I'll put it in your minds because we're going to have to decide how we would like to continue. We can either continue and do this online, voting by app. Anita is just showing me how we can do it. It will be up to the committee, but there will be bells ringing very shortly, so we can either end to go for the vote or we can continue on for a few more minutes.
I'm going to start the second round, though. I'm going to pass it over to Michelle Ferreri.
Michelle, you have five minutes, or was it Anna?
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON
We went back and forth, but we can go to Anna.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I know that Ms. Kim has gone. I'm going to ask a couple of questions and I just need to know if you have the answers.
I'm going to start with Kate.
Do you have any stats on female versus male sex workers—yes or no?
12:25 p.m.
Executive Director, Action Coalition on Human Trafficking Alberta Association
I don't. I actually think I'm the least qualified person on this panel to answer that question. I would encourage one of the other folks who works more directly with the sex-working community to respond.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
12:25 p.m.
Executive Director, SWAN Vancouver, Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform
I don't have any hard stats on this. The people we support at SWAN are primarily self-identified women, so we don't actually support males.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON
Thank you.
Ms. Stone, it's the same question.
Ms. Stone, hello...? Did we lose her?
I'm going to go on to the next question then.
Ms. Price, I'm going to go back to you. Do you have any stats on the abuse between human traffickers and sex workers?
12:25 p.m.
Executive Director, Action Coalition on Human Trafficking Alberta Association
No.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
12:25 p.m.
Executive Director, SWAN Vancouver, Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform
I'm sorry, but can you clarify that question?
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON
Sure.
Do you have any stats on the number of individuals who are abused whether they are human traffickers or sex workers?
12:30 p.m.
Executive Director, SWAN Vancouver, Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform
I don't have any stats on that. I'll reiterate that SWAN has been working with this population for over 20 years. We very rarely come across someone who has been trafficked. I'm not sure if that answers your question.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON
All right. I'm going to go to my next question.
We heard from Timea Nagy. I'm not sure how many of you know who she is. She was a victim of human trafficking. She has helped guide very many young people out of that business. She'll actually be in Toronto tomorrow doing a presentation with CSBA. She is also highly recommended by the Peel Police with respect to how she's worked with them to educate them.
I'm also reading her book, which is very dark—I'm not going to lie. One of the things she shared with me was that it starts with human trafficking and then they get so enraged that they end up going into the sex trade because they have no other options because they feel belittled because they've been demoralized. These perpetrators and these abusers have demoralized them so that they just feel like less of a woman.
My question to you is this: As a woman, I think I have a lot to offer. I think in today's society, women have the option of going to school, of getting an education, of doing better. I know that Timea is a perfect example of getting out of this situation, going back to school, educating herself and educating other women.
I'll start with Ms. Price.
Do you agree that as women we can do better than just selling our bodies?
12:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Action Coalition on Human Trafficking Alberta Association
I believe that as women we can make that decision for ourselves.
12:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Action Coalition on Human Trafficking Alberta Association
I'm not “okay” or “not okay” with anything. My point and really the priority of my showing up today was to communicate that it's for each individual to decide for themselves how they want to live their lives and to have the agency to do so. It's our job to try to address the systemic issues that are restricting their ability to do so.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON
Ms. Wu, what is your feedback on the opportunity that woman have today?
12:30 p.m.
Executive Director, SWAN Vancouver, Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform
I agree with Ms. Price 100% that we need to keep in mind that we don't actually get to decide for each of these people. They can decide for themselves. As Ms. Price said, everyone deserves to be safe no matter what their occupation is.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
Thanks very much.
No bells are ringing yet, so we're going to continue on this.
Go ahead.