Status of Women Committee on June 5th, 2023

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

I call the meeting to order.

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to meeting number 71 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on the Status of Women.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely by using the Zoom application.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mike, and please mute it when you're not speaking.

With regard to interpretation for those on Zoom, you have the choice at the bottom of the screen of floor, English or French. For those in the room, you can use your earpiece and select the desired channel.

I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

Members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. Members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can. We appreciate your patience and understanding in this regard.

In accordance with the committee's routine motion concerning connection tests, I'm informing the committee that all witnesses appearing virtually have completed the required connection tests.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on Thursday, April 27, 2023, the committee will commence its study of menstrual equity in Canada. That's what we'll be doing for the first hour today.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses. We have witnesses here for the first hour, as I've indicated, and for the second hour, we'll be going in camera.

For this portion, I would like to welcome Madeleine Shaw from Sustainable Menstrual Equity Coalition. She's the spokesperson. She is on with us via video conference.

From The Period Purse, we have Jana Girdauskas and Danielle Kaftarian. From United Way British Columbia, we have Sussanne Skidmore, who is the co-chair of the Period Promise campaign. She too is with us by video conference.

We'll be providing each group five minutes to speak, and we'll be starting off with the Sustainable Menstrual Equity Coalition.

Madeleine, you will have the floor for five minutes. When you see me moving my arm, that means you're down to about 10 to 15 seconds. Let's try to wrap it up during that time.

I'll pass it over to Madeleine.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Madeleine Shaw, Spokesperson, Sustainable Menstrual Equity Coalition]

Good morning, everybody.

My name is Madeleine Shaw. I'm joining you today from Vancouver and the unceded traditional territory of the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh peoples.

I'd like to thank the committee for this study on menstrual equality and recognizing the need to address period poverty.

The Sustainable Menstrual Equity in Canada Coalition, SMEC—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Can you hold for one moment, please?

The volume is very low. We're going to turn the volume up in the room so that we can hear you a bit better.

Go for it.

[Madeleine Shaw]

The Sustainable Menstrual Equity in Canada Coalition, SMEC, is composed of three women-led Canadian companies—Aisle, joni and Bfree—that specialize in sustainable menstrual care products, many of which are Canadian-made. As a coalition, we cover the range of sustainable products, including eco-friendly disposable pads and tampons, reusable cups, cloth pads and leak-proof underwear, providing a greater choice for users.

We've been working for decades to address period poverty in Canada and have been advocating policy changes, raising awareness and establishing initiatives to provide sustainable menstrual products to those in need domestically and internationally.

“Period poverty” refers to the lack of access to menstrual hygiene products, education and facilities, often due to financial constraints. Other barriers, such as access to preferred products, geography, clean water, safe washroom space and personal trauma, also make it difficult for some Canadians to fully access products and participate in day-to-day routine activities.

Sadly, this issue is on the rise, and there is no one-size-fits-all solution to period poverty. It demands our leadership, empathy and action.

Access to menstrual products is a basic human right, not a luxury.

According to a Plan Canada study, 26% of respondents indicated that they had gone through a period without having menstrual products available to them. This study also found that 68% of Canadians felt that their period prevented them from full participation in an activity.

Imagine being a teenager having to miss school every month because you can't afford menstrual products.

No person should be held back from achieving their full potential simply because they menstruate.

Achieving universal menstrual equity will take more than just placing an endless supply of traditional, largely plastic-based disposable products in bathrooms; achieving true menstrual equity means universal access to quality products of choice, education and a stigma-free social climate. It means we need to diversify not just product offerings but also access methods for people living in remote and rural areas and on reserves, access for those living with disabilities or without access to transportation; and access for those whose periods simply arrive at an inconvenient time or who have needs that do not fit into the model of bathroom access only. In those moments when you are finally able to access a pad or tampon, it's worth asking what happens three or four hours later, when the hunt for the next product begins again.

SMEC and our products are critical to this success. Our products provide a range of benefits beyond those of mainstream disposables, including financial savings, greenhouse gas reduction, waste management, innovative solutions and job creation in Canada. SMEC's long-time experience in supporting Canadians with access to safe, effective, eco-friendly menstrual care products has shown us that offering diverse solutions, both disposable and reusable, is the most effective, equitable and inclusive way to counter period poverty.

We are encouraged by the federal government's creation of the menstrual equity fund and the changes made to the Canada Labour Code. It's a critical first step, but we can and need to do better. This is an opportunity for Canada to take the lead on a global level. Already, countries like Scotland are providing free, disposable, sustainable and reusable products to all its citizens.

Our opportunity is to deploy a team Canada approach by leveraging the innovation of our own homegrown women entrepreneurs to set a new sustainable standard. This is also a pivotal moment to ensure that Canadian women-led small and medium-sized businesses are included in the procurement of products in the government's programs and that sustainable, disposable and reusable products are also offered according to each individual's needs.

Let's work together to ensure that every person in Canada who menstruates has access to the necessary resources and support, empowering them to live their lives to the fullest without fear or shame.

Thank you again for inviting me.

We look forward to answering your questions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Perfect. Thank you so much.

The Period Purse will be next.

Danielle and Jana, you have five minutes to share. You can just mix it up between the two of you. The time is yours.

[Danielle Kaftarian, Operations Manager, The Period Purse]

Thank you for having me. I'm Danielle Kaftarian, operations manager at The Period Purse.

The Period Purse started in 2017 when our founder was driving to work one day. While she was at a red light, someone was panhandling at her car window and she had nothing to give them. That's when she had an “aha” moment: What does someone who is unhoused do while on their period? She had never thought of it, and when I heard about this “aha” moment, I had one of my own.

As we explored the answer to that question, we started to learn more about the broader picture of period poverty in Canada and to unpack many of the issues surrounding it and how it impacts one in seven people, from unhoused to employed folks.

As the menstrual movement has spread across Canada, with so many like-minded organizations supporting those who need it, we sit in front of you today as experts in menstrual equity to help advocate for those who are not here today.

We know from a Plan Canada study in 2022 that 22% of menstruating Canadians are using period products longer than they should because they can't afford more. That number rises to 33% in households earning $50,000 or less, and it increases even further to 48% for indigenous people.

The Period Purse is the first national charity to help alleviate period poverty. We have donated almost 4.8 million period products across Canada through our outreach program and we have educated over 5,000 people with period-positive presentations.

Our mission is to create menstrual equity by ensuring sustainable access to period products for all and, through education and advocacy, to end the stigma associated with periods.

When we have spoken to those in the communities we support, we have heard many stories of people choosing food over tampons; missing work and school; stealing products; and making makeshift tampons and pads out of things like old rags, toilet paper and sponges, which can lead to infections. I think we would all agree that this is not okay.

I want everyone to take a moment and reflect: Did anyone pack toilet paper in case they needed the washroom while they were here today, or did we just come knowing that it would be available if we required it? Using the washroom is something we can't control. It's biological, and the same thing goes for periods, so why are period products not in washrooms like toilet paper and soap are?

As we begin to examine the barriers to accessing period products, we see that affordability is a big one. It's estimated that in her lifetime, a Canadian woman will spend up to $6,000 on menstrual products. That's an extra expense that menstruators need to budget for.

We hear stories like those of Asha, who lives in a northern first nations territory and who tells us that a box of tampons can cost four to five times as much as one purchased in large urban cities. Even in rural cities, the prices are drastically more than they are for the same products here in Ottawa. Where you live in Canada should not be a barrier to the availability and cost of period products.

The Period Purse provides education on various subjects around periods, from what they are to why menstrual equity is important. Many are unaware of the options beyond disposable pads and tampons, so we teach them about reusable products and how to use them and clean them—products like menstrual cups, cloth pads and period underwear—to empower folks to choose products that are best for them.

We know that many lack access to clean water, and that this prevents people from choosing reusable products as their preferred option. Boil water advisories are just another barrier to consider while working towards menstrual equity.

Providing choice of products ensures that we're considering things like cultural and religious beliefs as well as sexual trauma, all things that can impact one's preferred choice of product.

I have heard countless stories from students who are missing out on class time to track down products from friends, guidance counsellors or teachers' desk drawers, all because products are not in the washroom. Saying that students should carry products with them at all times is not taking into account that this could be their first period or it could be unexpected as they learn how their bodies work.

I have also heard stories about products being in boys' washrooms so that male students are able to take them home for their mother or sister who need them. It's such a simple step to reduce stigma around periods.

As we work alongside community partners that support 2SLGBTQ+ people, we know that having safe washrooms is critical to menstrual equity. All people who menstruate deserve to have access to free products. Without access to washrooms, transgender and non-binary people may have to choose between a washroom that matches their gender identity and one that has the period products and amenities they need. Entering a washroom that doesn't align with one's gender identify and expression can be dangerous, both mentally and physically.

In closing, as you can see, there are many layers and things to unpack around this topic, and we have only scratched the surface today. As more people become comfortable, there will be more stories told and more things to learn. Menstrual equity isn't just about handing out pads and tampons; it needs to coincide with education and advocacy to make impactful changes.

I'm pleased to see that the Government of Canada as well as other levels of government are striving towards taking steps forward to support the goal of menstrual equity. I would love to continue this conversation with anyone who would like to learn more after today.

I hope everyone walks away having learned something new and perhaps having had their own “aha” moment.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

We will now turn to Sussanne Skidmore from United Way British Columbia. She is online .

Sussanne, you have five minutes.

[Sussanne Skidmore, Co-Chair, Period Promise Campaign, United Way British Columbia]

Thank you.

Thanks for having me at the committee and for the invitation to present on this really important issue.

My name is Sussanne Skidmore. My pronouns are she and her. I'm calling in from the unceded and traditional territories of the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Wauthuth peoples.

For the past five years I've been a volunteer co-chair for the United Way's Period Promise campaign with the United Way here in British Columbia. I'm also the president of the BC Federation of Labour.

United Way British Columbia began working on menstrual equity and period poverty in 2016 and launched the first of its annual campaigns to collect and distribute products to non-profits and charities in 2017. Since then, we have been able to distribute more than 2.5 million menstrual products to hundreds of community organizations.

In our first collection, we managed to gather and distribute 30,000 menstrual products. We were convinced that this mountain of tampons, pads, cups, liners and underwear was going to provide meaningful long-term support to our community. We donated 15,000 products to an organization providing crucial supports in Vancouver's Downtown Eastside. We were thanked by the organization's leadership, who told us, “This will last for three months.” We learned very quickly that this is a bigger issue than we thought.

Since then, our collection campaign has grown substantially. In 2023, we hope to gather and distribute as many as 700,000 products to more than 100 community organizations across British Columbia. To accomplish this, we are leaning on key partners like Tampax and Always, Pacific Blue Cross, Aisle, joni and countless others, but we've learned that a campaign of any size won't provide people living in precarity with the reliable access they deserve. As a result, we've also been doing important work in three other areas.

First, we developed a policy agreement that organizations of any shape can sign on to. By joining the commitment, employers, unions, community organizations, grassroots collectives, school districts, post-secondary institutions and municipalities have committed to providing no-cost, stigma-free access to people who menstruate. We've shared this with the United Ways across the country, and more than 65 organizations have signed on.

Second, we've built collectives to help people with lived and living experience, grassroots activists, academics and community organizations work together to build awareness and shape solutions. We have one that is focused on work being done in British Columbia and another one that coordinates efforts to advocate to the federal government. We're excited to see that many of these partners have been invited to participate in these hearings.

Third, we've done a lot of research into the issue of period poverty in British Columbia. It has shown us that around 90% of the community organizations that we provide products to are asked for free products more than once a week, and more than 90% are reliant on public donations of physical product to support their needs.

The largest portion of our data is from research we conducted with the Government of British Columbia, and it was published in 2021 as the “Period Promise Research Project Final Report”. We found that nearly 51% of people who menstruate in British Columbia have struggled to purchase product for themselves at some point, that those who struggled to purchase product for their dependents had a 98% likelihood of struggling to purchase products for themselves as well, and that just over 30% of the respondents said they didn't know where to purchase products they could afford.

We also saw how common missing out on some aspect of community is for those who don't have access to products. Accessing menstrual products is therefore a gateway for accessing community. More than 18% of respondents had missed school, 22% had missed work, 29% had missed out on community events, and 27% had missed out on social activities. All of those numbers increased for people with lower family incomes, indigenous folks, people living with disabilities and immigrants or refugees.

We also found that having access to free products in community helped 75% of respondents be more engaged in their community and improved overall wellness. Here's one testimony we collected during our research that proves it:

By having a workplace that supports menstrual hygiene and provides access to free menstrual products, I find myself more at ease when it comes to having my period. As someone with a heavy flow and abnormal cycle, I'd always be anxious about whether I remembered to bring enough menstrual products with me. For the unlucky days where I didn't have any [or] enough on me, I'd have to resort to folding enough toilet paper to create a makeshift pad. I'd spend the rest of the day worrying with thoughts running through my head like, “Am I leaking? Did it seep through?”.... Free and accessible menstrual products provide me with the freedom to continue with my day and the confidence in knowing that I have one less thing to worry about.

Today, due to the cost of living and an inflation crisis that we are all experiencing across this country, more people are struggling to afford basic needs. Work on increasing access to free menstrual products and reducing menstrual stigma is urgently needed. This means providing good-quality products; providing a variety of options; providing easy, regular and reliable access; and building supports for the most vulnerable in our community.

Thank you for inviting us to be a part of today’s conversation, and I'm happy to take any questions, should you have any.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

We've had our presentations. We're on to the round of questioning. We will begin with six minutes each from each party.

We'll be starting online with Dominique Vien for six minutes.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning, ladies. Thank you for making time in your busy schedules to take part in our study today. I have a general question for you.

The minister told us in May that the government had released $25 million over two years to set up the menstrual equity fund, which some of you mentioned. The framework for the pilot project hasn't been clearly laid out yet. The national organization charged with administering the fund hasn't been chosen yet.

What would you recommend to ensure that the pilot project makes a difference and really helps to fix the problem? In other words, what are you expecting from the pilot project, and which national organization should that responsibility go to?

[Sussanne Skidmore]

Sure. That's a great question. I'll do my best to answer it.

The reality is that a pilot project is awesome and I'm excited that it's happening, but I expect to see the pilot project turn into something permanent and sustainable.

The government has a responsibility to provide these services to folks across the country, realistically starting with those who need it the most. The reality is that those who menstruate in this country are paying the period tax we all talk about. We need to help relieve and alleviate some of the financial stress this is causing folks. The Government of Canada and the provincial governments as well need to step up and support this.

You heard from several of the other speakers about the products that are available to us in washrooms when we need to wash our hands or use toilet paper. These are available at no cost to us. We don't travel around with them in our purses in the same way that we do with period products. My expectation is that period products should be treated just like that as well.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Ms. Shaw, do you have a view on what the pilot project should look like and who should be in charge? We haven't gotten much information so far.

[Madeleine Shaw]

That's a wonderful question. We're excited about this initiative.

The things we would love to see, as SMEC, would include, in part, a commitment to sustainability as well as, as I mentioned, some directive around procurement, ideally inclusive of Canadian women-led small and medium-sized businesses.

It's one thing to say that our period poverty is a problem and that we need products, but without support for the agencies that are going to be delivering those products and programs, there's a bit of a missing piece there in terms of knowing what those products are and where they could come from. A commitment to understanding how diverse solutions affect different populations is also really important.

As for the administration, I agree that a national charity, something like the United Way, would be an ideal partner. I'm sure there are others, and I do know the government is considering those options.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Ms. Kaftarian, what you said really made me think. It's true that it can't be easy for unhoused women to access menstrual products. Montréal's Chez Doris and other shelters for homeless women come to mind. These women are already stigmatized. They are already struggling. What is it like for these women on the streets?

[Danielle Kaftarian]

There are so many different stories that we hear when it comes to needing to get access to products. That's why we need to work with shelters, libraries and food banks, and even with different community partners out there on the streets, such as the vans going around or whatnot.

It's really about ensuring that when we're accessing those folks, we provide them choice and education about where you can access different types of products out there. We will sometimes go in and educate different locations to teach folks about different things.

Going back to your original question of where we should go with the pilot program, it's really seeing that who is selected has an ability to provide that education, to do choice, and to work with so many of the organizations that are out there doing work, specializing in the community partners they work with to get supplies out to folks. We already know how to do it. So many groups like us know how to do it, so let's just continue that on and give funding to those groups to provide that support.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

I have one last question, but I think I'm out of time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You have 15 seconds. You have time to say thank you.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

In that case, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

We're going to stay online now. It's going to be Emmanuella Lambropoulos.

Emmanuella, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to begin by thanking all our witnesses for being here to enlighten us on this issue. I think it's something that we don't often think about and it's not super-obvious, but once you do think about it, it becomes really obvious. You guys have shed light on that situation.

As a past teacher, I hear about how many kids are possibly missing school because of this. That, in particular, really touches me very much, and it makes it really hard to hear and to come to the reality that this is as big a situation as it is.

Part of the community I represent has a lot of needs financially, and I can only imagine that buying these products is not at the top of their lists when they can barely feed their families in some weeks and some months.

I also think there's a lot of stigma attached to this issue, as you guys have mentioned, and because of that, I'm sure we have no idea of the real number of people who need these products and can't afford them. There are a whole bunch of issues that we need to dive into.

You guys have all given some potential solutions, and also the problems that are associated with each one. Obviously a huge number are required, because people menstruate for a week every month. That means they need to change these products often enough, and it's not enough to just have products that are not reusable.

Madeleine Shaw, you spoke about using Canadian innovation and about using Canadian businesses and women-led businesses—in many instances, it's often women-led businesses that would create these kinds of products—in order to fill that gap and perhaps come up with a solution or work with government on one.

Can you elaborate a little bit on what that would look like, and how the Government of Canada can help in that regard?

[Madeleine Shaw]

Thank you so much for this question.

Funding to support women entrepreneurs is always necessary in order to drive innovation in the country. In SMEC, we have some incredible examples. I've been active on this issue and have been developing reusable products since 1993.

Aisle was one of the first companies in the entire world, not just in Canada, to truly pioneer reusable products in a general sense. We also have the Bfree Cup, which is one of the most important innovations in menstrual cup technology in the world, in that it doesn't require boiling to be cleaned. This is super-relevant for remote and first nations communities, where access to potable water is an issue. As well, joni provides dispensers that can be used in bathrooms to provide all kinds of different sustainable disposable products.

Really, we're looking at diverse solutions to address multiple different types of needs. Whether somebody is a student, whether somebody is working, or whether somebody is insecurely housed, we're looking at diverse solutions to meet the needs of those diverse populations, because we have the lived experience of living in bodies that menstruate and of being out in the world trying to make a living, trying to learn, trying to parent, and trying to do all of these different things.

Being given a voice, being invited right here today to have a voice and for our opinion to matter and for our experience to matter, we're not just being seen as, “Well, they're businesses, and they're just looking to make money.” We are not just some of the most knowledgeable, dedicated leaders in this country when it comes to menstrual equity and to period poverty; we're also small businesses, and as you said, we bring innovation. We're here to help and to join team Canada, to address period poverty and to make menstrual equity a solution that's something we can achieve in our lifetimes.

Thank you.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much.

I guess you would be supportive if the government had a fund specifically for companies to use or to provide innovation money in order to create these kinds of products.

[Madeleine Shaw]

Yes, I would, but I would also argue that we already have the products. We are already doing this. I think the innovation that's required is around distribution and access. We have fantastic products, but a lot of people....

On this bathroom-only solution, we need to think beyond that and diversify accessibility for people for whom that is just not a reality. That's a place that I would look, and I would welcome the government's support in doing that.

As I said, we have the products. We just need to figure out new ways.... It's education too. With regard to what they're offering at the Period Purse, how do we make that national? How do we find more partners for that?

It's understanding that this is not a one-size-fits-all solution. It's a wraparound solution. We need to meet people who menstruate where they are, as opposed to saying you have to go to a bathroom to find a product.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much.

Danielle Kaftarian, you spoke about the importance of having these products accessible in bathrooms. Many people are irregular and may not know when their period is coming. It's something that affects more than just those experiencing period poverty, but people who menstruate in general.

In what way do you think the federal government can play a role in making these products, even disposable ones, more accessible in general, in places where people can go to the washroom?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You have about 15 seconds maximum, because we're over time. We need a short response.