Status of Women Committee on June 5th, 2023

[Danielle Kaftarian]

Absolutely.

I think it's considering where people who menstruate go. The washrooms are perfect as a touchpoint and that first step; they're already there. They need the products, so let's get them there.

As Madeleine was saying, it's thinking outside of the box to other places like food banks and community centres, different places where people will need products.

I'm getting the signal, so I'll wrap up there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Awesome. Thank you so much.

We're now going to pass it over for the next six minutes to Andréanne Larouche.

Andréanne, you have six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.

Ms. Kaftarian, it's a fact that more and more jurisdictions around the world are paying attention to menstrual inequity. The discussion so far has focused on young girls in school and women experiencing homelessness, but I'd like you to follow up on something you said in your opening remarks. You spoke about how period poverty impacts one in seven women. Would you mind elaborating on that?

[Danielle Kaftarian]

One out of seven women will struggle with their periods and getting products.

It can be anything, like what we talked about with schools. When a student needs a product, whether they have challenges of their family affording it or not, it's about discovering that they need the product while they're in the washroom, locating wherever it is in the school, going back to use the washroom, and then going back to their classroom where they've missed out on class time.

We know that families are struggling to afford day-to-day tasks due to inflation increases—there are all sorts of different things there—and they're choosing between putting food on the table or spending $15 on a box of tampons. These are all decisions that are causing people to struggle to afford period products. It's not just about people who are unhoused; it's also about people who are living on the cusp. We're seeing that in food banks. I work very closely with many of them. People are requesting these products, now that it's becoming more open in the food banks and they're needing these products.

It is starting to expand, and as we were saying—I think Madeleine said it—we're seeing that as more people become more comfortable, more people are asking for this help. We don't know what those true numbers are.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you for that answer, Ms. Kaftarian.

Ms. Skidmore, in response to another member's question, you mentioned the period tax. In the past, I've proposed that the committee conduct a study on the fact that pink products for women are already more expensive than they should be, not to mention the other products women have to buy. Women are at a financial disadvantage for a variety of reasons and they have to spend more than men on daily hygiene products.

I would like to hear your views on that. Don't you think we should broaden the discussion on the period tax to include the pink tax, which really changes how much a product costs, depending on whether it's for men or women?

[Sussanne Skidmore]

Whether you call it a pink tax, a gender tax or whatever, I think it's really important to acknowledge that it's not just women who menstruate: There are people of all genders who menstruate. We need to make sure that they are talked about as we have these conversations. I think that's really important as well.

There is no doubt that for everyone on this call on Zoom and everyone in the room—most of the people in the room—the lived experiences for a lot of us is that we do pay a lot more for a lot of different things. I think it's important right now that we focus on talking about this issue, particularly because it impacts so many people in our communities, and the issue of period poverty is only getting worse.

We need to make sure that we're working, as Madeleine said, with the companies and the organizations that are doing this work. They are experts in this field and they continue to push the bar to make sure that we're breaking down the stigma around period poverty and periods in general, that we talk about it more openly and break down that stigma. It's a huge issue for a lot of people.

I have to say that if you'd asked me about 10 years ago whether I would spend a couple days a week talking about period poverty, periods in general and period products, I probably would have said that I would never picture myself doing this work. Now we live and breathe it over here in British Columbia.

That's a huge issue, but I really think it's important that we stay focused on moving this issue forward.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Skidmore.

As the gender equality critic for my party, I wholeheartedly support broadening that definition because people of different genders can menstruate as well.

Ms. Kaftarian, thank you for addressing this issue as it relates to food banks. It's something we've heard about. Having taken part in many food drives, I know that the inclusion of period products in Christmas hampers is coming up more and more. This issue is connected to food poverty. People are looking for the products because they are struggling financially and having to make tough choices.

Ms. Girdauska, like other witnesses, you talked about education. Here's my question, though: How can the federal government mount an education campaign without interfering in an area of provincial jurisdiction, health?

In my next turn, I can talk about some initiatives under way in Quebec.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You have 20 seconds to respond.

[Jana Girdauskas, Founder and Education Manager, The Period Purse]

That's a good question.

In Canada there are only a handful of provinces that have moved forward and put money into period poverty. A lot of have started with schools and putting free period products into schools. It's looking to where the federal government has the jurisdiction, but it's also about helping roll out the money to the people who are on the ground doing the work and getting those folks paid. A lot of the organizations are volunteer people who are trying to get donations to come in. Whether it's reducing the stigma, getting the education or rolling out that outreach, that's where the federal government needs to help.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much..

We're now going to go back online with Leah Gazan.

Leah, you have six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for coming.

I wanted to ask my first question of Madeleine Shaw.

You indicated that access to menstrual health products is, in fact, a human right. I agree with you that these are human rights. As Jana Girdauskas indicated, we don't have to ask for toilet paper when we go to the washroom, but we still have to do that for menstrual health products.

You said that this is a human right. Would you agree that the failure of the federal government—of all levels of government, in fact—is a very clear violation of this right?

I know you spoke about how the federal government has implemented the equity project, but I know that you indicated that they must do better. Do you feel that if they fail to do better, they continue to violate this human right?

[Madeleine Shaw]

These are amazing times that we're living in. I've been working on this issue for 30 years. I come from a place where nobody wanted to talk about it, and there was no question that you would have to pay for a menstrual product in a bathroom, if you were lucky enough to find one there. There were just women-coded bathrooms at that time.

We have seen activity and leadership provincially, from the federal government and from NGO activists, from the United Way and from The Period Purse. There is this incredible groundswell that's happening. It's not just across Canada, but Canada is leading this. Canada has an incredible opportunity—

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Just in saying that, though.... I have a limited amount of time. Is a failure to provide menstrual health products a violation of a human right, yes or no?

[Madeleine Shaw]

I do see it that way, personally. Yes, I do.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Okay, thank you so much.

I'll move on to The Period Purse.

Jana, you spoke about the issue around access to clean drinking water. Again, having access to clean drinking water is a human right. A failure to have access to clean drinking water.... We talk about water just to drink, but it also intersects with the human rights violation in terms of the failure to ensure menstrual equity. How critical is it for the federal government to get rid of all boil water advisories to ensure it can truly support menstrual equity in Canada?

[Danielle Kaftarian]

This is Danielle speaking.

Yes, we need to take into consideration the boil water advisories in so many communities. Often we think that they just affect drinking water and cooking, but they do intersect with menstrual equity. A lot of the reusable pads, period underwear, and cups need to be boiled and cleaned correctly in order to keep them sterile and working properly. We also need access to clean water to clean ourselves, to wash our hands, etc. Having boil water advisories and having people without access to clean water affects so many layers. It is something that needs to be dealt with.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Danielle. I apologize for calling you Jana to begin with. In any case, thank you so much for your excellent testimony.

I want to move on to Sussanne Skidmore with United Way.

You said something.... I mean, we're celebrating pride month right now as we speak. You said that people of all genders menstruate. I will go back to this whole issue around human rights: the ability to access menstrual health products as a human right, the ability to access clean drinking water as a human right, and how inability to access is a violation of human rights with regard to menstrual equity. In terms of what you said—that all genders menstruate—can you expand on that? Through a human rights lens, what would that look like in terms of providing equal access to menstrual health products?

[Sussanne Skidmore]

Thanks, Leah. That's a great question.

As an out queer person, I'm pretty familiar with this conversation. The reality is that trans men menstruate; trans people and people who are non-binary are also people who are menstruating. Not having access to products creates an additional barrier to those folks and an addition violation of their human rights. It adds that extra layer that potentially, for some folks, can put them in very dangerous situations.

Yes, it's pride month. It's a great reminder that folks who are trans and non-binary are facing additional violence and fear. To put somebody in a situation of having to out themselves in the community because they're asking for product when they're in a bit of a critical need because they're menstruating is 100% a violation of a human right. We really need to make sure that we are being inclusive when we do this work.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

That's awesome.

Leah, I can see your mouth. You're so ready to ask your next question. I love that about you, but we'll come to you again.

I'm going to turn it over to Anna Roberts now. We'll be starting our second round.

Go ahead, Anna. You have five minutes.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses.

I have a few concerns and some questions.

As of January 2023, 70% of people miss school or work due to their period. In May of this year, the minister announced $25 million over two years. In December 2022, the minister announced access to free menstrual products in all federally regulated workplaces. Last October, the Ontario government made a three-year deal with Shoppers Drug Mart to offer free feminine hygiene products in schools.

I have a couple of questions. These plans are in place, yet 70% of people are missing either school or work. We have all of these plans and all of these funds being delivered to help, yet the number's quite high. Do you have any stats on why that is? I'm a little confused, because we're investing $25 million and giving free products, and yet we still have 70%. The numbers don't jibe for me. Maybe you could help me understand that better.

[Danielle Kaftarian]

Absolutely. That's a great question.

I think, first, it signals how big the gap is and how big the need is here. Let's do the school situation, in the interest of time.

Yes, the Ontario government put money toward putting products in schools. It was an incredible first step forward. That product has worked out to be about seven pads per student, I believe, for the entire school year. We think that on average a menstruator can use up 25 to 35 pieces of product per cycle. They don't even have enough pads donated for a student for one cycle of menstruation.

Also, it was only for high school students and above, when we know that menstruation starts as early as grade 5. The elementary schools and middle schools were left out. Some of the school boards stepped forward and reallocated some products, but there still weren't enough products for all of the communities.

This is where we need other parts of the government and organizations like ours to step in and fill in those gaps and give menstruators products for the entire school cycle, as opposed to just one period. We need to be giving them for home and for work. There are so many different areas.

Really, it's a step in the right direction, but there are still a lot of gaps that we need to fill in.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you for that.

What you're saying, then, is that even though in May they announced $25 million invested over two years, that's not going to make a difference. That's what you're telling me.

[Danielle Kaftarian]

No, I disagree. It will make a substantial difference. Will it be enough to completely solve the problem? I can't answer that.

This is where we're going to see what that threshold is, but we need to come together and help people. If people can go to work, it means they're going to earn more income and potentially be able to afford their own products down the road if they save money.

We don't know what the threshold is for capping it, but we know we need to meet people where they are right now, and there's a huge gap that needs to be filled, which we need to step in and fill.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

With a lot of people working from home these days and these products being offered at work, they still don't have access to them. Is that correct?

[Danielle Kaftarian]

That's correct. This is where we need to have creative answers. If people are working from home, where can they access those products? Can they get them from a different location?

What we need to remember is that people can afford their products. They're going to buy what they want, and they choose. We need to support those who are out and about and get their periods when they don't expect it, as well as those who can afford them. That's where we need to work with community partners so that they can have those touchpoints to get that product.