Status of Women Committee on June 15th, 2023

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you so much.

Thank you to this incredible witness panel for the work you're doing on menstrual equity.

I'd like to go to the economic arguments for this. We've talked about the dignity, the rights and the choice, but there's a real economic argument to be made here.

One of the things mentioned was that people are missing work and school. Then, of course, there are issues of not just physical health. The shame and the lack of confidence can also lead to other issues in terms of the rest of their lives being impacted. Also, Ms. White, you mentioned the flip side of that, which is that most of the businesses that are in this sector are led by women. On the one hand, the product can actually help in terms of economic empowerment of women, but we also have the businesses that are women led and the entrepreneurship.

I'll start with Ms. White on that angle, and then I'll ask everybody, in the order you spoke, to comment on that if you would like to.

[Meghan White]

Thank you so much.

The concept here—it draws back, I'm sure, to a lot of other questions—is creating a circular economy of support: that we are getting as many things done as simultaneously and as collaboratively as possible. Whether we are council members, MPs, working in the non-profit sector, business folks or designers of menstrual products ourselves, when you identify the need and you see the whole, you must act in every sector across the board.

That's where we're going to find our really Canadian way here and where we're going to work together collaboratively to solve this problem while supporting industry and while meeting our environmental goals. The collaboration here is so important. I can see it in this room. Everybody's really keen and ready to do that.

I'll pass it to someone else.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

It's a real win-win.

I'll pass it to the Moon Time Sisters for Ms. Brown or Ms. White.

[Veronica Brown]

When it comes to the economic impact, when we look at the rate of high school graduates in northern communities.... We're talking about on-reserve high schools for first nations and also about Inuit communities, which are really not brought to this table often, that conversation of northern communities.... The high school rate of graduation is quite low. When Nicole was speaking with the MP who really started this fire of Moon Time Sisters, it was because students were missing school.

If we look to supplying communities in different regions, to high schools, but not only high schools—we are talking also about other programs related in the community—you're going to have a higher rate of graduation from female and non-binary two-spirit students. You're going to have more women and two-spirits going to work. Our stats are saying there is quite a high number of women and two-spirit people who are missing work because they do not have access to menstrual products. When we talk about the economic impact, if you're going to allow the entire community to work as a whole, we really do need to be supplying this one barrier that is a very significant barrier but a very simple fix in terms of just supplying product.

When we're talking about jurisdiction, municipalities know what the concerns are in their jurisdictions. They're working with shelters. They're funding their shelters. If we're looking at who is going to be responsible for funding, it really does need to be multidisciplinary here. At the end of the day, every region knows their region very well. They have frontline workers in there. Their social services know exactly what shelters, the numbers who are attending, who is going to need that product. That's a pretty big piece to keep in mind, but when we're looking at first nation and Inuit communities, we do need to be working with the territorial governments as well and with their programs.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thanks.

I'm going to interrupt right now. I have put the clock on pause. We are voting in 28 minutes and 29 seconds. I'm looking for this committee to allow us to continue, and I'm looking to see whether we want to vote by app or whether we need to go upstairs to vote. If we can get everybody wishing to vote via the app.... The reason I'm asking is, looking at the timing, we would be voting....

I'm looking at the clock. We have 28 minutes. That means that, within 24 minutes, we'll have to stop. Then we're looking at coming back to this room, but the meeting today is done at 5:30. We're voting at quarter after five, meaning there would not be time to come back. I want to put that to everybody.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Then you have another five minutes to vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Yes, but I'm saying that it's up to us.

Let's continue this conversation, but the idea is, when we go up to vote....

Let's finish this meeting in 23 minutes. That will give everybody four minutes if they wish to go upstairs or four minutes if they do that and then go from that. There are 24 minutes left.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

How much time do I have left, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You have 55 seconds. We won't be coming back as there will not be time.

Let's see if people are staying in the room or not.

Go ahead.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

In one minute or less, I saw a lot of nodding in the room, so would you guys like to comment on that?

[Hayley Newman-Petryshen]

I think it comes back a lot to the opportunity costs, losing education and not being able to go to school.

I think we also have to think about health policies. We severely underfund women's health research, so you have people with endometriosis or other menstruation-related illnesses who have a period for three or four weeks. We're not talking about two or three days every now and again; we're talking about a chronic illness. The amount of work people are missing, the amount of school people are missing, the activities people are missing when they're out not feeling like they can fully participate because of that....

One in 10 women has endometriosis. There is a bunch of other related things that give people a hard time when they are menstruating. When we talk about periods, why people are missing these opportunities and why the economy gets tied up in that, we really need to be thinking about this as well.

Social corporations and enterprises in Canada have been huge supporters of Monthly Dignity. We fully exist off the donations from companies that are based in Canada, many of them run by women.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

We're going to Andréanne Larouche for six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for being here today to destigmatize this issue, which still appears to be taboo in 2023.

I'm going to go back to what my colleague Ms. Vien said earlier. For 10 years, I managed an environmental fair, the Foire Écosphère, which generated environmental solutions for sustainable transportation and electric vehicles. We also provided solutions for green renovations and construction, eco-fashion and aesthetic products, since eco-cosmetic products are increasingly popular. People were already talking about reusable menstrual products at the time. Now they're also talking about plastic-free and single-use products but that are much more environmentally friendly and have less environmental impact. The environment is an important issue.

Research can be a federal jurisdiction. Would it be a good idea to invest more in medical research, particularly to find solutions for sustainable and reusable products? That would make it possible to address the environmental consequences of those products.

Since all the witnesses discussed reusable products, those of you here in the room and online can answer my question.

[Lara Emond]

I'll answer it, if I may.

It's clearly worthwhile to invest in research, and we don't do enough of that in Canada, whether in materials or ultimately the development of new materials, which would be part of the circular economy. There has to be more investment in research if we want to be more competitive one day and lower the purchase price of menstrual products. I think we have to do that. We know that Canada isn't competitive enough in many areas of trade and intellectual property

As my colleagues mentioned, we have to consider the fact that very little research is being done on the health of women and persons who have a uterus. I'd like to point out that there are still vague and permissive areas in the legislative field. Several studies have shown that many pesticides, endocrine disruptors, dioxins and other substances can still be found in menstrual products today. That influences the health of persons who have periods and use those kinds of products. We can't yet quantify the impact that has on health or, in turn, on our overall health system and environment in Canada.

We could draw a parallel with cigarettes, for example. Many years ago, little research was conducted on cigarettes. The general opinion was that it was a healthy product. Then research and studies were done that revealed a need to regulate cigarettes. Those kinds of studies on menstrual products should be conducted for the welfare of all Canadians.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Would Ms. Bolster-Foucault and Ms. Newman-Petryshen like to add anything?

[Clara Bolster-Foucault]

I'd like to add something. I really agree with what was just said.

However, the lack of menstrual health data really really leaves us in the dark as to the impact of menstrual insecurity. The truth is that we don't know who is facing this issue or its consequences for the persons concerned. I think investing in this kind of research would be more beneficial. Greater emphasis should be put on the health data collection and less on the products. However, research also has to be conducted on the products.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

That's where you see how important it is to rely on sound data in science in order to develop new technologies. My colleague Luc Thériault could discuss the lack of research being done on women's health with you at great length. He has proposed a study on breast implants.

Many organizations have made us aware that less money is invested in research on cancers and diseases that typically afflict women.

I want to single out the work done by stores that offer reusable products and bulk products. A young and absolutely dynamic female entrepreneur who recently received an award from the chamber of commerce runs a business called Orange coco. Her store is extraordinary and sells reusable products. Hats off to Orange coco.

With regard to menstrual equity, we realize that many things fall under provincial jurisdiction. Do you think that one potential solution would be to increase health transfers to the provinces, knowing that the Quebec government has published a study entitled, "Étude sur l’accès aux produits menstruels", that was conducted by the Conseil du statut de la femme du Québec. Many cities in Quebec have adopted measures to facilitate access to menstrual products. The thinking is that increasing health transfers could help promote this kind of initiative that Quebec, the provinces and many municipalities are already considering.

Do our witnesses have anything to say on the subject?

[Clara Bolster-Foucault]

I can say something again. In my opinion, the answer is, "Yes, but…"

I think that could help, but it's not the only solution I would propose. It also has to come from various sources and from everywhere. If people don't have access to the health system as a result of barriers to access to primary care and so on, they won't have greater access to menstrual products if they come solely from the health system.

To sum up, that could be a source of assistance, but it would also have to come from elsewhere.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, ladies.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Okay, now we're going to go online.

Bonita, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for the important testimony we're hearing today.

Outside of the products that we know are so important, there have been discussions today around the impacts on public life, the ability to earn an income, the impact on the ability to take part in public life.

My questions will start with Ayla Banks.

You used the words “health, growth and success”. I think for this study there's an opportunity to have recommendations from testimony, so I wonder if you wouldn't mind sharing. How does not having access to these products—going through the stigma—affect opportunities? What are the opportunity costs? What are the effects longitudinally over a lifetime? How can we make changes at the federal level to make it better?

[Ayla Banks]

I would say the simple nature of just going to work in clean clothing and making a living, a simple thing like that is so impacted by this lack of access. I've seen folks lose their jobs either because of having accidents at work, which is a reality that everybody experiences, and not having a solution for that, or because they are just not able to go to work.

As was said earlier, people sometimes experience menstruation for more than just a week a month. That could impact folks being able to work long term. That wouldn't make them qualify for disability, for example, which would help to supplement income. The constant starting and stopping of attempting to get back into the workforce is really impeded by not having access to any sort of menstrual supplies.

Even if workplaces provided them across the board, that would make an impact, but in terms of the stigma that already exists, folks having access to them before they go to work in the first place so that they can be prepared would make a huge difference.

It's access across the board, not just in workplaces, but more places. Not having it just for folks who identify as female, I think, would be another big one, because it is a danger factor for a lot of folks to have to out themselves in workplaces if they are male-presenting or something like that.

I wonder if that answers your question.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Yes, that's great.

Thank you so much for talking about the ability to earn an income in the workforce. I'm sponsoring a petition right now by a community group that's interested in the ability to have...you mentioned having it as a disability and you might need more days a month to assist.... This is around having workdays given to those who can't necessarily...the pain is too much or the inability to.... It can make them very ill throughout the cycle.

I wonder if you could share a bit around whether you've had any experience of folks who are not able physically to go to work because of the pain or the experiences they have during their cycle.

[Ayla Banks]

Another big thing that would be really helpful is education alone. I see a lot of people who don't understand that they are experiencing something that is not a regular occurrence, such as endometriosis, PMDD and things like that. That language and those diagnoses don't often exist for folks in the first place, let alone once they know they have it. The stigma and taboos often take away from anybody taking it seriously it enough to qualify for any sort of supported work environment for those kinds of experiences, extreme pain or other side effect situations.

I was talking about the bleeding alone, but yes, on the pain factors, the behavioural changes and all of those, there's not a lot of education, especially if you come from a less educated...or have a lack of education in your background. Knowing about that, but then also having the follow-up of it being taken seriously and making it accessible for people to be able to work around that to work....

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much for that.

I want to move over to Moon Time Sisters.

I want to talk a bit about teenagers and young people, and some of the effects that come alongside menstruation, like migraines, pain or being ill, like throwing up. It's all of those things, where there isn't necessarily a lot of education around them and a lot of stigma of not being able to share them.

I wonder if you could share a bit about the impacts for young people of the stigma and of the missing education piece, and how we can correct it.