Status of Women Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2023

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses.

My question is for Ms. Mattoo.

Ms. Mattoo, you talked about the causes of the criminal behaviour and about mental health. You talked about rehabilitation. What testimony can you give to the committee on the importance of such an approach when dealing with the racialized survivors and the marginalized communities?

[Deepa Mattoo]

In terms of the causes of the gender-based violence and intimate partner violence, it's very well documented from various researchers that mental health, addiction, poverty and homelessness all go hand in hand in terms of the experiences of the survivors and the perpetrators who commit these crimes.

In the conditions that are being proposed in the recognizance, I didn't see anything proposing that there will be attention paid to all of those supports, along with other conditions that are being proposed. That's where my submissions were; they were around the fact that you can't really solve a problem by just putting on more restrictions and impositions and making it a more criminalized environment for people instead of actually giving them supports to rehabilitate themselves. That's what the basic ethos of the criminal justice system is.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Ms. Latimer, can you talk about the priority of the support for the survivors? If this bill is amended, can we enforce existing support systems that protect survivors? Can you talk about that?

[Catherine Latimer]

I am not sure of the extent to which this bill or others are actually protecting survivors. Frankly, I think recognizance and the section 810 orders stand a good chance of keeping apart people who are aggressive with each other, because there is a legal order that they stay apart. They're not foolproof by a long shot, but I think the existing section 810 orders make sense.

I worry that the order that's being proposed here is going to be found to be disproportionately harsh, given the other restraining orders or recognizances that are meant to deal with “serious” personal injury offences, and this is only meant to deal with personal injury offences. There is a problem there.

I think that probably your best shot is looking at these section 810 orders.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thanks so much.

I'm going to pass it over to Andréanne.

Let's stay right to the two minutes, Andréanne.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Latimer, electronic monitoring has been one of the options that judges can consider for some time now. Recently, some provinces have even instituted programs to promote its use. In particular, following on the "Rebâtir la confiance" report, Quebec has launched its anti-approach bracelet program in various locations within the province.

Do you know of any programs like the one that has been implemented in Quebec? Have you had a look at the "Rebâtir la confiance" report?

[Catherine Latimer]

I have not examined that report, no. I'm unfamiliar with it.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Right.

It is interesting, because that report was produced on a non-partisan basis in Quebec City by all of the parties, regardless of their political allegiance.

I have looked at the composition of the committee of experts. It includes: Élizabeth Corte, Chief Judge of the Court of Quebec from 2009 to 2016; Maggie Fredette, coordinator of CALACS Estrie; Jean-Thierry Popieul, social worker and clinical coordinator of CAVAC Montreal; Sylvain Guertin, specialized investigator; Deborah Trent, social worker and director of the Montreal Sexual Assault Centre; Éliane Beaulieu, criminal and penal prosecutor; Julie Desrosiers, researcher and full professor in the law faculty at Université Laval; Michel Dorais, researcher and full professor in the school of social work and criminology at Université Laval; Patricia Tulasne, actor and member of Les Courageuses, but also a victim; Pierre Picard, senior consultant with the Groupe de recherche et d'interventions psychosociales en milieu autochtone; Arlène Gaudreault, president of the Quebec Association for Victim Advocacy; Jean-Marc Bouchard, founder of the Emphase group in Trois-Rivières; Hélène Cadrin, a retired public servant and specialist in spousal violence; and Simon Lapierre, researcher and professor at the University of Ottawa. I will conclude with Cathy Allen, coordinator of the Alternative pour Elles women's shelter.

There are many others, and there was very broad consultation. The document contains 190 recommendations. Because the issue of gender-based violence must be tackled comprehensively, the recommendations include the subject of electronic bracelets, which is currently being studied.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you for the comment.

I am now going to pass it over to Leah for two minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you very much.

In the committee today, I think we have different perspectives but a similar goal, which is to address violence, in this case particularly violence against women. My concern in this, though, is that I think we need more of an understanding about how this bill, which is supposed to protect, often criminalizes the victims, who are often BIPOC—Black, indigenous and people of colour. Instead of helping them, they criminalize them. How does that happen?

You have a minute and 45 seconds.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

It's a minute and 20 seconds, actually. We're on different clocks.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Okay.

[Catherine Latimer]

I'm certainly not an expert in this, but I think marginalized communities are less likely to be reliant on police. If they start to get into a disagreement or an argument, there may be a tendency to want to fight back themselves, which will certainly lead to the dual charging in domestic situations.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Going back to the systemic racism piece, because we know through different reports that it's true about not going to police because of a history of systemic racism, do you think this bill is premature because we haven't dealt with the current mess we're in?

[Catherine Latimer]

You know, I would like to see us deal with that current mess, but I think we would get no legislation passed at all if we had to wait for the systemic racism issues to be addressed. I think we have to chip away at it and be mindful of the implications of any piece of legislation being passed in terms of its likelihood of exacerbating an already bad situation. I think this bill might well do that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Awesome. Thank you so much.

On behalf of the committee, I would really like to thank Deepa and Catherine—

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Madam Chair...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Sorry. Go ahead.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I'm sorry to interrupt.

Just quickly, both witnesses offered really interesting amendments. Through you, could they submit them to this committee—very soon, please—so that we can take those amendments into consideration?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Absolutely.

If you have additional information and amendments that you would like to send in, please send them in. We do have a deadline. Everything has to be in by next Wednesday at noon. That would be greatly appreciated.

I would really like to thank Deepa and Catherine for being here today.

I have a couple of comments. On Monday we'll continue our consideration of the human trafficking study. Version two will be coming out at any time, but we have a conclusion and a few extra things done. We will be looking at that plus the recommendations. On Thursday we will go back to the economic empowerment study. On Monday we'll do clause-by-clause consideration. On Thursday we'll have Minister Ien.

If there are no further questions, today's meeting is adjourned.