Status of Women Committee on March 22nd, 2022

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Was there no interpretation at all during that period of time?

[Kripa Sekhar]

No. I know I had to press this button, but I wasn't able to. I'm sorry. I'm new to this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

That's okay. That's what we're talking about. We're all new to this. I totally understand.

Perhaps Farrah can start, and then we'll move on, but I'll leave it up to Andréanne.

[Farrah Khan]

My name is Farrah, like “far away” or “far-out”.

The question was about how, in 2017, the federal government put forth a gender-based violence action plan, and whether things are getting better for the community at large. I think that's the short version of it.

I can say, as someone who has been on a GBV advisory committee for the federal government, that there are things that are much better under this government in terms of the fact that we are talking about it and it's open to the community. All of a sudden, violence against women organizations were welcomed to Parliament to have in-depth conversations about what we needed to do. All of a sudden, there was funding for organizations to talk about this as a systemic issue and not just as an issue that is something that happens between two people, as Angela has said.

We're also seeing intersectional conversations come forward, and funding that was put forward to the community to put together the national action plan, to the community to say what we needed and to the community to say, “This is what has to happen.”

For my program alone, in 2018 the federal government made a commitment to look at gender-based violence at post-secondary institutions. We were part of that work that was being done.

It has been a game-changer to actually be able to talk nationally about this issue, to come together with violence against women organizations, survivors and student leaders and ask, “What are we going to do to address this?”

Has it gotten better? No, because under the pandemic, it has been atrocious, the amount of violence that we are all seeing. In Ontario alone, there was an 84% increase in femicides alone. No, it's not getting better. It's actually devastating, what's going on right now.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

In recent weeks, the committee has heard from representatives of many organizations that serve women who experience gender-based violence. One of the problems they have flagged is the dire need for recurrent and predictable funding from the federal government. The focus tends to be on short-term funding when what they need is long-term funding.

What are your thoughts on that? How would predictable funding help organizations plan for the long term?

[Angela Marie MacDougall]

Who is that question for?

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

My question flows from the one I asked Ms. Khan about funding. Ms. MacDougall and Ms. Sekhar can answer if they like.

[Angela Marie MacDougall]

As Farrah mentioned so well, the work of this government has been a really important beginning and an advancement. I'm also on the federal advisory committee on GBV. I think what we need is sustained action. The resourcing of women's and feminist organizations across the country has been important in making community-based responses in a whole range of ways, but it has to be sustained, and we have lost ground under COVID. We've lost considerable ground under COVID.

In order for us to continue the advancements that we think we have made over the last 40 years around addressing inequities, we have to continue to really put the pedal to the metal in terms of funding and resourcing those community-based responses all across the country. The national action plan is a road map for that. It details, at great length, considerable action that could be taken.

On the question about investment, I think that's the next step. It's to see that kind of investment escalate to address not only what we think we achieved as a result of the 2017 initiatives, but also the fact that we've lost considerable ground over the last two years. We have to at least get back to where we were and then continue going, and that's going to take funding and resourcing in a way that the national action plan has detailed.

[Kripa Sekhar]

I want to say and add to all of these solutions that I don't think there is a concrete one type of solution to fix all of the issues that have emerged post COVID or during COVID.

We know that the women we serve come from two countries, sometimes even three, and therefore, when there was death and illness of a parent or a partner in another country, it was very difficult for families to meet. In the grieving process, the fear of extreme isolation as a result of that and the abuse women have gone through during this time have been phenomenal. I wanted to give you a few examples, but I don't think I have the time now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

What I will do is ask for anything after this. That's absolutely fine.

We're now going to move to Leah.

Leah, you have six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Chair.

I would like to thank all the witnesses for being here today.

I wanted to start off with Madam MacDougall.

You spoke about the need for a whole-of-government approach and the importance of having an intersectional approach. This is certainly something that I have been pretty vocal about. We don't have one-size-fits-all solutions, and we have to take histories into consideration as well.

In the introduction to the “Colour of Violence” report that you'll be releasing soon, it was identified that the lack of access to culturally safe spaces creates barriers in accessing support, particularly for Black, indigenous, newcomer, immigrant, refugee and racialized survivors.

I would agree with that, even in the city of Winnipeg. Could you expand on that, please?

[Angela Marie MacDougall]

Thank you.

I so appreciate Treaty No. 1, of course, and the home of the Métis people, and I have had the privilege of being in that territory doing this kind of organizing.

What we haven't seen, and what you, I believe, have named, is that, historically, services have been based around the idea of the universal woman, which has prioritized women of privilege, particularly European women. If we understand that Canada is a settler colonial state, and that through European colonization there has been a stratification, which has positioned European women at the top and indigenous women at the bottom, and then other women layered throughout that stratification, this is really important for us to keep in mind when we're thinking about how we address violence and gender-based violence in communities that have been historically and contemporarily subjugated within that colonial framework, which is alive. This is a living history.

The buy-in for options, which is to resource communities of colour and indigenous communities and Black communities in order to take action, is a really useful approach. We know that indigenous people know how to respond to violence—

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I'm sorry. I want to ask you another question, and I have a limited amount of time. I want to get it on the record.

You also spoke in the report about individuals working in criminalized or under-the-table economies, such as sex work or garment factories, who also face significant barriers in accessing justice when they experience gender-based violence. I ask this question because in the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, they addressed this issue around sex work and how sex workers are often placed in danger because of the criminalized treatment.

Can you expand on that, please?

[Angela Marie MacDougall]

Yes. I think that's an important piece to highlight.

Yes, we have advanced more legal and criminalized options when we're talking about those who exchange sex for money and other things. We know that whenever we seek to create legislation and criminal law around survival and those underground economies, what happens is that communities of colour, particularly indigenous communities and Black communities, experience a different kind of response, in that there is an overpolicing and an underprotecting of those individuals. This is certainly the case for those who exchange sex for money, whether that is in terms of enterprise or whether that's around exploitation.

We think it's very important that the decriminalization approach be considered, certainly for underground economies, and that there are services and options made available to help improve the safety of those who are within perhaps an exploitation framework, but also for those who are in an enterprising kind of capacity in terms of the exchange of sex for money or other things.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

This is for Madam Sekhar.

I really appreciated your presentation on racism and language barriers in terms of accessing services.

You also spoke about income. I have proposed a bill for a guaranteed livable basic income, Bill C-223, not requiring Canadian citizenship for refugee claimants and permanent residents, as a way, in response to the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. Also, we know there's a direct correlation between violence and poverty and having women actually have a true choice.

Would you agree with me that a guaranteed livable basic income would be a protection factor for women and diverse genders trying to flee violence?

[Kripa Sekhar]

Absolutely. The only thing I would request from you is to ensure that it's a realistic livable income, and not something that.... Rents in Toronto for a single bedroom are about $1,500, and I'm being conservative. If you're talking about a livable income for a woman who's trying to support her two children, please ensure that it is realistic. You can't just throw peanuts and expect us to grow bananas.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You can't throw peanuts and expect bananas. That's what we should all put into our study. Thank you very much for that last remark. A smile for such a difficult topic to discuss.

We're now going to move on to our second round, but due to time limitations, I'm providing three minutes to both the CPC and the Liberal Party. The NDP and Bloc will be receiving one minute, just because of the time frame.

Dominique, you're on for three minutes.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, ladies, for being here today.

My first question is for Ms. Sekhar.

Ms. Sekhar, you talked about the South Asian community and the fact that women in that community who experience violence view it as their fate.

Did I get that right?

[Kripa Sekhar]

It's the way in which South Asian women have been socialized. This is part of their journey. Even the man is selected for them, or whoever it is, and they have to complete that particular role as a wife, a mother, a daughter-in-law and a sister-in-law. A South Asian woman is essentially married to the family, and I'm using the word marriage only because it's such a tradition-bound community.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Culturally, that transmission never stops if that is the model girls in the community have.

Ms. Khan, you said that transgender people were seven times more likely to experience violence than members of other groups.

Did I get that right?

[Farrah Khan]

They are 1.7 times more likely, and that's from the Trans Pulse survey that came out just recently. I would really advise you to read that. It's an excellent survey that looked at the experiences of transpeople in Canada.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Are you referring to intimate partner violence?

[Farrah Khan]

Yes.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

What does that violence look like? Is it the same as in cases of intimate partner violence? Does violence against transgender people follow the same model; is it experienced the same way?

[Farrah Khan]

In some ways it is the same, because transwomen are women and transmen are men, so there are things that happen within those relationships, but there are some things that are different. When we live in a culture that is still extremely transphobic, where we have laws and policies that tell them they are not allowed to use services, access supports or be seen as people—