Status of Women Committee on Dec. 7th, 2023

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Do you have any indication, at this point, which departments are fulfilling that obligation, and which ones are not fulfilling it as well?

[Frances McRae]

We have a sense that all departments are taking this quite seriously.

I would say one of the big pluses on our side is that we have very strong partners in this, which are the Privy Council Office and the Treasury Board Secretariat. They are the gates through which people have to pass when proposing policy and funding authority ideas. They are really improving their expectations of departments and agencies as they put forward proposals, and that's a really strong plus for us.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

That's good to hear.

Going back to the gender wage gap that we heard about, we know that, federally, we have legislation to ensure pay equity among genders. Does that legislation put any pressure or have any effect on the private sector or other levels of government?

[Frances McRae]

We believe it does have an impact on others. Certainly, when we think about pay equity, some things we also have to look at are the structures of government and the structures of workplaces. It's not just about pay equity; it is about some of the other things we talk about around the systems and structures people are in.

Minister Ien and Minister O'Regan did a very good video on pay equity day that—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

That's excellent. Thank you so much.

We're now going into our two-and-a-half-minute round.

Andréanne, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Sometimes, when people talk about budgets that went up during the pandemic, I get the sense that they think everything has been resolved in some areas, such as violence against women. The pandemic may be over, but the needs are greater. I realize this is semantics, but there are still consequences.

Canada summer jobs is another program for which the government says it didn't cut funding, it just went back to the pre-pandemic budget. Unfortunately, the Minister is gone, but she's also responsible for Canada summer jobs, a program that both employers and young people looking for work experience really appreciate. That's a different part of Ms. Ien's mandate, but she is responsible for it.

We have made representations. My colleague, Louise Chabot, instigated a study of the Canada summer jobs program at the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities. This year, despite our representations, the budget is the same as last year even though it was a real headache in terms of applications on the ground. I hope you'll pass that along. I don't know if there's been a conversation with the minister about that.

[Frances McRae]

Thank you for the question.

We're aware of the Canada summer jobs study that's under way. We've received an incredible number of applications for that program for years. We'll certainly pass the message along.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Is there a plan to reinstate the bigger budget to take into account needs on the ground for both employers and young people trying to get experience?

[Frances McRae]

You're still talking about Canada summer jobs.

I can answer the question about demand. As public servants, we operate the programs with the money we're given, and that amount is voted by Parliament.

However, I can say that demand has always been very high. You're right about that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

We're now going on to Bonita for the next two and a half minutes.

Bonita, you have the floor.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much, Madam Chair.

As the critic for disability and inclusion, I need to talk about women with disabilities.

The objective of the women's program is “to achieve the full participation of women in the economic, social and democratic life of Canada through systemic change.” I know that DAWN, which sits on the national advisory committee to end violence, has a stat that “58% of women with disabilities live on less than $10,000 per year.”

My question is this: Could you please describe how women with disabilities will be supported through this funding?

[Frances McRae]

I want to clarify which funding you're talking about when you say, “this funding”.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

It's for the women's program, specifically.

[Frances McRae]

Absolutely. Women with disabilities are at a significant disadvantage. This is when we talked a bit about diversity, inclusion and barriers. Women with disabilities certainly face some of the highest barriers we see. It's even greater if we talk about women with other intersectional considerations—in rural areas, for example.

I would say the women's program investment we have in the supplementary estimates (B) is part of the overall $160 million that was provided in budget 2023 and voted on by Parliament to add to the women's program.

The recent call for proposals I was talking about, which closed on November 7, is on women's economic empowerment. We expect to be able to support particularly marginalized women, including women with disabilities, in that process.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I know there's not a lot of research around women with disabilities. It's been very hard to find. Even through the Library of Parliament, there's very little research or data.

How do we find the groups that are supporting women with disabilities, and how do we get some data on that?

[Frances McRae]

You're right that there is not a lot of research. We work very closely with DAWN to understand what they're seeing on the ground as well. We all see the most recent statistics on women with disabilities and people with disabilities generally. There are eight million people in Canada who say they have a disability that limits their daily activity.

I would say disability statistics, generally, are not that easy to find. Of course, we are seeing young women reporting great numbers as well.

We partner with Statistics Canada for their work on disaggregated data.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thanks very much, Ms. McRae.

We're now going to move back, in order to finish off this round. We have five minutes with Michelle Ferreri, and then it's over to Sonia.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thanks, Madam Chair, and thanks again to the witnesses for being here.

I want to continue where we left off, because I had so many more questions. We were talking about the operating budget.

As I said, we have a cost of living crisis, so taxpayers watching are very mindful of ensuring that money is efficiently used. We have $68 million to grants and contributions for advancing gender equality—just under $70 million. We were talking about the $537,000 for operating costs.

I'm curious. You said you have hundreds of applications. That's why you need to have this high number. What is the formula that decides how much each employee is paid to do a...? What is the formula that decides salary?

What I want to point out here.... My colleague Ms. Vien brought this up. She asked you a question. She wanted to know how the number of employees has changed since 2015, when Prime Minister Trudeau took office. You guys have gone from 70 employees to 400 employees. That is a significant number. When we talk about bureaucracy and the cost of living crisis, that's a significant amount of money in salaries.

Can you explain the formula that decides how you come up with an operating budget that is almost 10% of the budget for advancing gender equality?

[Frances McRae]

Thank you very much for the question around resources.

I recall that last time, when we were talking at committee, we did actually table with the committee as a follow-up the change in our resources. Hundreds of millions more dollars were provided to us by Parliament to implement programs in the time frame that we're talking about. To do that, we need people. Those funds go out to communities. We used to have a grants and contributions budget of about $19 million. Now we're up into hundreds of millions of dollars. It does take people to manage that work. We're quite prepared to be able to table with you those resources.

I would just say that it's not one specific formula. It depends on the program. It depends on how it's delivered. With the women's program there have been very direct contributions with specific organizations. There are hundreds and hundreds of projects. We take care of those projects. We want to make sure they go well, and we're in touch with people on the ground. It does take resources to do that.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I'm sorry. I have limited time.

This is a bit baffling. I'm going to be honest; it's a little bit insulting for people to be watching, because the stats.... Things have gotten worse, significantly worse. As I said to the minister earlier, there's a 79% increase in violence against women. There's crime and chaos. You're saying you have hundreds of millions more dollars, but everything is worse. People who are watching at home are saying, “They're spending almost $600,000 to pay people to hand out money. Where's the money going?”

We've seen this. I don't want this to be.... I know you're doing your job. I get that, but as a member of Parliament elected to elevate the people's voices.... We are in a cost of living crisis, where inflation is driving up the cost of living. The more you spend that is not spent efficiently, the more the cost of everything goes up. We've created a rabbit hole. The more money we give you, the more you need, because it's not doing what is expected. You've just told us that you've gotten hundreds of millions more dollars and you need more people to decide where that goes, yet we have a 79% increase in violence against women. We are the status of women committee. If the economy is not working, nothing works.

We've heard from my NDP colleague that women's shelters are not getting the money they need.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I have a point of order, or of clarification, actually.

WAGE was created in 2015, so there was no department before that.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

That's debate.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Excuse me, that's debate. Thank you.

Go ahead, Michelle.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I think the bureaucracy is what is so upsetting to people. You're not giving a clear answer on where this money is going and how it's getting into the hands of the people who need it most. Even in this $25 million that's asked for.... Food Banks Canada are able to do it with $106,000, and they're the ones administering this menstrual equity program for people who need it. You're saying it's $537,000.

I would love for you to table this, to break it down so that people can see it. Prove me wrong: I guess that's what I'm asking.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Michelle, your time is over.

On her behalf, if you could table that information specifically on menstrual equity, showing the costs, that would be wonderful.

We're now moving it over to Sonia for five minutes.