Status of Women Committee on Oct. 29th, 2025

[Connie Cody, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

Thank you.

In another part of that interview—which was in French, so I may not have translated it correctly and excuse me if so—you mentioned you might go through a difficult situation. If you get shot, you accept it, otherwise you wouldn't have become a police officer. You expect, however, that the justice system, in particular, will support you. You expect that, if someone shoots you, there will be consequences. Really, our scales are completely turned upside down.

What changes are needed to help restore trust in our justice system not just for yourself but also for frontline officers and survivors?

[Pierre Brochet]

I think the use of firearms should be severely punished. I am the police director in Laval. In recent years, as in most major cities, we have seen a proliferation of firearms. In the past, in a city like Laval, with a population of 450,000, we might seize four or five firearms a year. Now we're seizing between 25 and 40 firearms a year. It has become a trend. People have firearms, and this phenomenon also affects domestic violence cases.

We believe that we need to find solutions in the Criminal Code so that there are meaningful consequences for people who knowingly decide to use a firearm in committing a crime, especially if they are repeat violent offenders.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

I believe you're going to share the rest of your time with Madame Vien.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Mr. Brochet and Mr. Michel, I have a quick question for you.

How much do you think Bill C‑5 and Bill C‑75 have contributed to the rather alarming increase in crime in general in Canada and Quebec, whether we're talking about sexual assault or domestic violence? Do you think it's a large part, an average part or a small part?

I'm going to ask Mr. Brochet to answer my question first. Then I would invite Mr. Michel to respond.

[Pierre Brochet]

Thank you for your question.

I would say that the growth or decline in the crime rate is caused by a number of factors. We understand that very well. For example, after the COVID‑19 pandemic, we saw an increase in crime, an increase in crimes against the person across the country. I don't think we can pin everything on those laws, but they are an integral part of it. This is one of the factors that we believe is important in this evolution of crime and violence across the country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Thank you, Dominique. That's your time.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Oh, Mr. Michel didn't have time to answer my question. I'm sorry about that.

We don't have enough time, so that's our frustration.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

We're now going to Madame Khalid for five minutes.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses here today for their testimony.

I want to start with Ms. Riendeau.

You mentioned the importance of context and first-degree murders in relation to intimate partner violence.

Can you expand on that concept a bit to help us know how to make sure that legislation, regulation and the action of law enforcement...? These need to be within the context of women and what they've experienced.

[Louise Riendeau]

Yes, we're talking about creating a coercive control offence. For example, police officers are already encouraged to examine all instances of control that a woman may have experienced. As Mr. Michel said, prosecutors in Quebec already have to take this into account, and we see that this is a very strong incentive for police officers to document these instances of control. Also, as a result of the training we've provided, we're now seeing things in police reports that we would never have seen before. For example, they describe the isolation experienced by the victim, the deprivation of care and resources, and so on.

When we know that coercive control is a significant precursor to lethality, we see it as a solution. Once this offence is enshrined in law, police officers will be required to leave no stone unturned and examine all events, not just isolated incidents. This will help us to respond more effectively and, by extension, improve prevention.

I don't know if that answers your question.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you for that.

There is a private member's bill, Bill C-225, that would address some of these issues you've spoken about. Do you think that bill is enough? Is it adequate to address these challenges?

[Louise Riendeau]

Unfortunately, no.

On the one hand, Bill C‑225 simply repeats most offences and places them in a context of intimate partner violence. That maintains the logic of isolated incidents, which wouldn't be the case if there were instead an offence of coercive control.

On the other hand, let's take the example of any of these offences, for example in the case of assault, since that's more likely to be the case. A victim who left marks on their attacker by biting or scratching them while they were being strangled would be charged with a crime against an intimate partner, just like a controlling and violent spouse. Coercive control leaves no mark on the victim's neck. In our opinion, this is not the solution to consider. We really need to look at whether there were signs of control in this situation, or whether it was an isolated act or an act of self-defence. That's why we hope to see a bill that creates an offence involving several elements of coercive control, rather than simply transforming the offences usually invoked in the context of domestic violence by adding the term “between intimate partners”. That is what we would much prefer.

However, what we very much appreciated about Bill C‑225 was the possibility of allowing the court to order an assessment of the risk of reoffending. We believe that it could also help us gain a better understanding of the context.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much for that.

Mr. Brochet, what are some of the challenges you and your team face on the ground when dealing with coercive and controlling behaviour and when dealing with intimate partner violence? How do the laws impact how officers act on the ground?

[Pierre Brochet]

The work of police officers is directly dictated by the parameters of the legislation. We have no power other than to enforce the law. When the legislator decides to clarify certain aspects, to specify acts, actions and to declare them illegal, it helps our work a great deal, because we don't deal with nuance, “maybe” or reasons. When we respond to a call for domestic violence, we analyze the facts, and if the legislator has clearly described that such and such a thing, such and such an action, is illegal, that helps us enormously. If we didn't have that, we could obviously respond to a domestic violence call and see an incident of coercive control, which is often the case, but our ability to act would be very limited if there had been no assault, for example. We could advise the victim, do prevention, talk to the suspect, but in terms of taking action, we would be powerless.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

That's excellent.

Now we're going to go to our third round, and we're going to go to Ms. Roberts for five minutes.

[Pierre Brochet]

As I said earlier, we operate under legislation and a regulatory framework. There must be training for police officers and Crown prosecutors, but if we want to protect women, the legislator must send a clear message. There are far too many victims of domestic violence, and far too many women are being killed. At some point, solutions must be implemented. Some people have concerns about human rights, but we have a duty and a mission to protect women, who are still far too mistreated in our society and who suffer extreme violence. That's up to the legislator. That's where all the other initiatives come from. In Quebec, for example, a lot of good things have been put in place, such as training, procedures and the anti-approach bracelet, but what remains to be done is to strengthen the laws.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My first question is for Pierre Brochet.

Fifty-five per cent of women who experience physical or sexual IPV feared a partner at some point. Between 2011 and 2021, police reported 1,125 related homicides of women and girls in Canada. Sixty-six per cent were perpetrated by an intimate partner.

You stated earlier that you will have to wait and see if the new laws will make a difference. My concern is that I don't think we have the opportunity to wait that long because each day we hear of these crimes. We recently had one a few weeks ago in Brampton, where a mother was killed by her intimate partner, leaving four children without parents.

How do you feel about ensuring that we have laws that protect women and that they are made so that these criminals stay behind bars and children won't be left without parents?

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Would you agree with me that, as legislators, we have failed women over many years by not ensuring that the laws protect them? It frightens me to know that women can't be protected because of our weakness. Would you agree that the laws have to be tightened, that the laws have to be mandated and that these guys should not be out of jail?

[Pierre Brochet]

Certainly. That's what we're asking for: that the laws be stricter and that more powers be given to police officers and justice stakeholders to detain violent individuals, especially accused who don't comply with their release conditions. Recently, in Saint‑Jérôme, a man accused of killing his former spouse violated his release conditions 16 times. He was still at large.

There's a flaw in the system. Even if we do good things, we need to be more categorical about our intolerance of violence against women.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

This guy violated his conditions 16 times and was left out on bail. That is absolutely appalling. How can we, as parliamentarians, ensure that the bill that's going to be put forward allows us the guarantee that these guys will not be allowed out 16 times, that women will be protected? As a woman myself and as a mother and a grandmother, I fear for my children and my grandchildren because, as police officers, you can't do your job if we don't implement those laws. Would you agree with that?

[Pierre Brochet]

I couldn't agree with you more. Police officers and justice officials need to be given more powers.

What is happening right now is very worrying, frustrating and concerning. We feel a little caught off guard and helpless when we arrest the same person 15 or 16 times and they are always released.

Change is needed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Thank you very much.

Before we go to our next questioner, I want to say to Mr. Deramond that we, as a committee, absolutely value what you want to say. I'm sorry about these technical problems. What I would suggest is that you write your answers to questions you wanted to respond to that you want the committee to know about, and send them to the clerk. They will be included in the testimony. Again, I apologize for the technical difficulties.

Now we'll go to Ms. Nathan for five minutes.

[Juanita Nathan, Liberal, Pickering—Brooklin, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you all for being here today to give your expert witness testimonies.

I'll be splitting my time with Madame Ménard.

I would like to start with Mr. Brochet. I wanted to talk a bit about police practices. I'm not very familiar with police practices in Quebec. Do you have police officers trained in domestic violence attending the cases at every station?

[Pierre Brochet]

In Quebec, what is unique is that police officers first obtain a college diploma in police techniques after three years of training. They then attend the École nationale de police. As a result, they are probably some of the best-trained police officers in Canada. In addition, various police departments have added training specifically on domestic violence.

Is there still work to be done? Yes, possibly. A lot of training is required in several areas, and we're always looking for ways to improve. Several police forces in Canada have decided to hire investigators or police officers who specialize in domestic violence and focus on prevention, but this isn't consistent across the country.

[Juanita Nathan, Liberal, Pickering—Brooklin, ON]

When they attend the scene the first time, they have proper training on this. Thank you for that.

Are the charges laid by the police or the victim? Is the victim just a witness to the police in Quebec?