Status of Women Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2025

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

We also see cyber‑violence on social media. In fact, Léa Clermont‑Dion's documentary, entitled Je vous salue salope prompted the two documentarians—her and Guylaine Maroist—to come to the Hill two years ago to ask the federal government to intervene to regulate cyber‑violence and what can be said online.

I know your colleague David Morin had worked on the former Bill C‑63.

Why would it be important to have a law?

With respect to online hate, there has been recent talk of removing the religious exception from the Criminal Code so people can't get away with it. There's sometimes a link between religion and certain narratives on the return of the very traditional man.

Why are these two aspects important?

[Marie-Eve Carignan]

It's important because hate speech online can then lead to violent acts. Such speech infringes on other rights and freedoms enshrined in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Human rights and freedoms must therefore be protected.

To do so, this speech must be regulated, much like the media is, because it must not defame or infringe on other rights. Allowing content that infringes on human rights to remain online is very problematic. Online hate speech must be strictly regulated. There is also violent speech, which can lead to actions outside of social media. I believe we need to think about how to regulate that kind of content.

Misinformation is complex to regulate, since the truth can change our knowledge. However, there's no doubt that it's very easy to regulate hateful and violent content, content that targets young people, particularly online cyber-pornography. There's content that is easier to regulate and that we should regulate without hesitation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Thank you.

Now we're going to the second round of questions.

We'll start with Ms. Roberts for five minutes.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you both for being here. This is an important study from which we can all learn.

I'm going to ask my first question of Dr. Lorenzetti.

Anti-feminist movements openly advocate for traditional gender roles and for keeping women in unpaid, undervalued caregiving roles and financial dependence. Given that 80.6% of Canadians cite food as their main financial pressure, 28% use savings and are going into debt and over 25% experience food insecurity, would you say that current economic realities are reinforcing women's dependence in ways these movements seek to exploit?

[Liza Lorenzetti]

The movements are definitely exploiting the anxiety, that's for sure—that feeling of “Where's my future?” and the idea I talked about earlier of humanity being doomed. They're asking, “What should I do?”

Talking with some of my young students is interesting, because for me, the tradwife movement is naturally looked upon as an anti-feminist movement. It's anti-feminist, hateful, etc. Some of the young women say to me, “Yes, but we're overwhelmed. We're exhausted. We're not sure where to put our energies. This gives us one option.” It's an option for women.

I think the economic crisis that's deeply impacting young people is part of the solution. It can't be separated from the solution, because the more options women have, the less they might be likely to engage in a relationship that's not going to give them a voice.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

I want to make it clear. My late husband always said to me that beside every successful man, there's a woman. I remember that after losing five children, he brought me a book to the hospital. He said to me, “I want you to always read this to our children, male or female.” The book was Love You Forever by a very famous author who I'm sure everybody knows—Robert Munsch. That was a book I used to read to my children—both my son and my daughter—to educate them that, regardless of whether you're male or female, respect for both genders is critical. If you don't respect yourself, then you can't respect anyone else.

In past sessions, we've had women here who came from different cultures that have different beliefs, and they are dominated by men. From your experience in shelters and social work, how do economic pressures and gender norms intersect to make women more vulnerable to abuse?

[Liza Lorenzetti]

They absolutely do. The choices are limited. When women don't have access to economic well-being, choices are limited. For me, it's not about enforcing one way or another how women live their relationships—I also love that book—but about the constraints that women feel in having to make choices they're not comfortable with. I don't come here advocating for a certain way of life for women, girls and two-spirit people—or men. It's about opening spaces where there can be choices. As long as you have systemic violence and economic violence in the sense of deprivation, which I think is a form of violence as well, you're not going to have those choices.

We need to take into consideration how deepened that is for communities that are already marginalized—migrant communities, communities with people working two or three jobs or communities that are now being called outsiders or being cast aside. That's really important to think about when we think about roles for women.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

In the last 30 seconds I have, I want to thank you for your comments. I was in a male-dominated profession previous to coming to Ottawa, and I have to tell you that I think my male colleagues in caucus are afraid of me. I don't know why, but they're very respectful, and I can feel comfortable around them. I think, from a mother's point of view, a lot of it is about the need to educate our male children—and our females—that everyone should be treated with respect.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Very good.

Now we'll go to Mr. Chen for five minutes.

[Shaun Chen, Liberal, Scarborough North, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thank you to both of the witnesses.

Dr. Lorenzetti, you said in your testimony that “misogyny generates enormous profits”. Could you elaborate on that and tell us more?

[Liza Lorenzetti]

I think there's a lot of research out there. That's not my area of research, but I have been online and seen the products that are being sold. Young men's insecurities are being weaponized in ways that make them willing to spend money. As a woman in her fifties, I've seen that. That has been a reality for women for a very long time.

How much money can you spend? There's the looksmaxxing movement. How are you going to get a date? How are you going to be somebody women want? There's an association among looksmaxxing, the sale of men's well-being through whatever it is—sometimes protein powders or a variety of other things men need to engage in, like fitness routines—and deprecating women. That's where the problem is. Fitness routines and well-being are not bad things. We all need those, but there's a connection between that and dominating. The domination is where the problem is.

That's why some men, especially young men, might go to these websites. They want self-improvement. They're looking for purpose or they want to get fit. Little by little, you see that they're in this so-called manosphere, where there are highly problematic ideologies associated with their well-being. In order to have well-being, they need to dominate, and this is where the problem is.

I'm able to provide some of that research, if you're interested, later on.

[Shaun Chen, Liberal, Scarborough North, ON]

In terms of efforts to tackle anti-feminist ideology, whether they are community-based or federal, you spoke earlier about the impacts on migrant communities. Are these efforts enough to address the unique challenges and oppressions faced by BIPOC women or gender-diverse women?

[Liza Lorenzetti]

That's a really good question.

A lot of the work we're doing in the community is connecting and training peer role models and men leaders. We're working with seven or eight ethnocultural communities who are then working with their daughters, sons and community leaders on healthy and nurturing masculinities. All of those things are happening. They're also discussing their challenges as migrants and their challenges with systemic racism. They're getting together in their own languages and through their own cultural practices to find community and solidarity. At the same time, what are we doing at a systemic level to address that?

I've read the 231 calls for justice, and we have anti-racism strategies. We can't do this work in a silo. I've worked in women's work for a long time, and I've found it quite siloing. I've thought to myself that other strategies and plans need to get involved in what we're doing. As much as we are trying to expand this community-based, culturally resonant work with men, in particular around fatherhood and role modelling, at the same time, there need to be policies that give people hope, and they have to be based on equity, decolonization and anti-racism.

[Shaun Chen, Liberal, Scarborough North, ON]

Speaking of decolonization and equity, I'll turn to Dr. Carignan.

Can you explain the risk of downplaying or undermining diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives? What impact does that have?

[Marie-Eve Carignan]

What do you mean? Do you mean if I...?

[Shaun Chen, Liberal, Scarborough North, ON]

Based on your research on misinformation and on the societal impacts of misinformation, when EDI is undermined or downplayed, what happens next?

[Marie-Eve Carignan]

In our research on disinformation and misinformation, we see that many influencers play on feelings of insecurity and vulnerability factors, such as anxiety, isolation, marginalization and feelings of exclusion.

Many influencers, whether they are spreading antifeminist ideologies or other extreme ideologies or conspiracy theories, capitalize on feelings of insecurity and vulnerability among populations, whatever they may be, such as marginalization and exclusion. These people are more susceptible to such narratives because they're seeking meaning, social belonging and answers to their questions. Their insecurity is exploited to draw them into a narrative of mistrust toward public institutions, traditional media, science—

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Thank you.

Ms. Larouche, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I will continue quickly. Time is flying by, and there's still so much to say.

Ms. Carignan, we've talked about the presence of influencers on Tout le monde en parle. However, what about Simon Coutu's documentary Alphas, which also caused quite a stir?

Has there been a noticeable trend in the number of followers of the influencers featured in that documentary?

[Marie-Eve Carignan]

It's the same thing, since the documentary highlighted influencers and showed links to their social media pages. Of course, that put the spotlight on those influencers. That's the whole problem.

We need to find the right balance in how we address these social issues. They're extremely important, and we need to address them. However, we must do that without giving a platform to people who want to promote such narratives to the general public and who want to make ideas that should not be normalized acceptable or commonplace.

I think that's where the line is sometimes very thin. The subject of the documentary Alphas was very relevant and it needed to be addressed, just like Ms. Clermont‑Dion’s documentaries, for example. However, there's a difference between a documentary highlighting experts and people who are affected, and a documentary highlighting influencers who are looking for an audience.

I believe that's where we need to reflect on the role of the media and journalistic practices. It is very clear when we compare these two styles of documentaries. Journalists are important, but we need to find the right way to deal with the subject.

I think it's a good example.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I, too, have been interested in the subject of this study for some time. I've also had similar thoughts.

We see links between what we're discussing and anti‑LGBTQ+ rhetoric. For example, I visited a high school class and spoke with a teacher. She had wanted to talk about diversity issues with her students, and the community flag had been torn down when she returned from break. She told me that now, in school, you can no longer be open about being gay or lesbian, or about being part of the diversity community. We're seeing a return of young men trying to control women and saying that women may not continue their studies. I've seen the same things.

We're seeing white supremacist rhetoric, anti‑LGBTQ+ rhetoric and anti‑woman rhetoric. How does this radicalization of ideas ultimately contribute to the antifeminist movement?

[Marie-Eve Carignan]

We can see that all these influencers are echoing each other, so—

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

I'm sorry, but that's your time, Madame Larouche.

Madame Carignan, if you want to respond and send your answer to the clerk, that would be fine.

We're going now to Ms. Cody for five minutes.

[Connie Cody, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

Thank you for coming.

Everything goes really fast, so I'll start with questions.

Madame Carignan, you stated that there's a misunderstanding of feminism. In the absence of an official definition in Canada of “anti-feminism”, in your view, does this not contribute to the confusion and frustration that could lead to anger and violence?

[Marie-Eve Carignan]

Do you mean because there's no definition of “anti-feminism”?