Transport Committee on Oct. 26th, 2006

[Kevin Sorenson, Conservative, Crowfoot, AB]

Who owns them in the U.S.?

[Claude Mongeau]

In the U.S., it's the railroads, but adjusting for the cars, railroads in Canada charge 35% less than those in the U.S. That cost has come down over the last ten years.

The government has announced a $2 per tonne reduction as a result of the so-called maintenance cost issue. We actually don't agree with this, but that's what the government has announced would be the savings if they implemented that part.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

With that, I want to express our committee's thanks to Mr. Mackay and Mr. Mongeau for being here. Certainly there were some tough questions, but I think they were of great benefit to our committee.

[Claude Mongeau]

They were tough and good.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

We now have a little bit of committee work to grind through.

Mr. Laframboise, I told you that I would get a commitment from Mr. Duchesneau. He has agreed, writing to the committee that he will be here on November 30. We are still waiting for Mr. Cherry to reply, but we have at least confirmed that part. I am prepared to put it on the agenda as per your request.

At the last meeting we talked about bringing everybody up to date on the schedule. I have scheduled two more meetings of witnesses, for October 31 and November 2, at which time, unless there are further witnesses who have expressed interest or who want to come forward--I haven't seen any--we would be able to move into clause-by-clause on November 7. Currently I've designated November 7, 9, and 21.

Again, those dates are subject to the will of the committee, but if there are amendments that any of the members want to bring forward, I've asked the clerk, and he's going to be forwarding by email the legal counsel's address, if you want to run it by them to make sure that the phrasing and the language is correct. I know from the past that it does create a lot of disruption in the committee unless we check to make sure that the wording is legal and right. So I do want to bring that to your attention.

I also want to notify the committee that we have an invitation as a committee to attend a dinner--something a little more social, perhaps--on Monday, December 4. We've been invited by the Rocky Mountaineer Vacations organization to attend a dinner at the Rideau Club. An invitation will be forthcoming, but I just wanted to give you a heads-up for your schedule.

Other than that, unless there are any questions, I want to move into the motions.

Mr. Laframboise.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

I have a question of privilege concerning your comment about Mr. Duchesneau. I'm told that Liberal colleagues will not be here on November 30, because of their convention. We'll need to verify if that is in fact the case.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

That's a good point. I didn't realize that.

I will get back to Mr. Duchesneau and see if we can move him forward a few days.

I appreciate that information, Mr. Laframboise. I wasn't aware of that. Good advice.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

It should be earlier, rather than later, Mr. Chairman, otherwise, he won't be testifying at all.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I understand what you're saying. I will pursue it and report back.

Mr. Scott.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Could we get a report at the next meeting on what options are available to us in terms of actually calling witnesses before the committee when we're not satisfied with the responses that are available? That way everybody will be aware of just what powers we can invoke.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Your question, I presume, is whether or not we can subpoena, or whatever the word is, to bring people before us. I'll verify that for you.

Mr. Carrier.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I have a small request. Could the clerk send us in writing the schedule of our upcoming activities which you have just listed?

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Yes. That will come out probably at the same time he provides you with the address for the legal counsel if you have amendments.

With regard to the amendments, again, if you run them through legal counsel we will then know the scope and whether they're in order. I mean, we can deal with them here, but it does create a break for us in terms of time if we let legal counsel study it ahead of time.

Monsieur Carrier.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Will you include the deadline for presenting amendments?

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Absolutely. In order to give the counsel some time, I hope that we will have them by the end of the witness presentation next Thursday. I will include that in the letter.

Thank you.

I spoke to Mr. Bell, who is unfortunately not able to be here today. This is an item that was left on the agenda from the last meeting. It was deferred to this meeting for further discussion. He has requested that we defer it until the end of the Tuesday meeting.

I ask for approval to defer Mr. Bell's item until Tuesday.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I will put it at the end of Tuesday's meeting, and we allow some time for that.

Moving forward, we have a notice of motion that was put forward to the committee at the last meeting. It was brought forward by Mr. McGuinty. I believe everybody has a copy of that notice, en français and in English. I will ask Mr. McGuinty to speak to it.

Mr. Russell.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Yes. I'd like to make an amendment on this particular motion if it's now on the table.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I think Mr. McGuinty has to move it first.

I would ask Mr. McGuinty to move his motion and perhaps to speak briefly on it.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to move the motion. It reads:

That the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities request the presence of senior infrastructure officials including the Deputy Minister and Assistant Deputy Minister with responsibility for the Canadian Strategic Infrastructure Fund and the Municipal Rural Infrastructure Fund to brief the committee on the inventory and progress of major infrastructure projects now underway.

On my rationale for this, there is enormous discussion in Canadian society at this time about infrastructure funding and particularly the role of the federal government in that funding. There are funds that pre-exist and pre-date the new government, and I believe there are funds that are part of the new government.

There's a lot of discussion in society today. Most recently, our colleague Mr. Laframboise was engaged in a discussion on a TGV train between Montreal and New York City. From what some of us have read, that would have a very positive impact indeed on the Montreal, Quebec, and Canadian economies.

There are at least four major public transit funding agreements in place totalling well over $1 billion in federal infrastructure moneys. There are at least a half dozen major water and waste water treatment infrastructure investments going on. There's increasing discussion about investment in the city of Quebec in a port and a potential deep-water port there versus infrastructure in a Halifax port, where piers already exist.

I think it would be beneficial for the committee to get a better understanding of where this is at, what decisions are forthcoming, and what announcements have been made. There have been ancillary yet related announcements by the government, not necessarily drawing from these funds, but creating confusion in Canada about what is on and what is off the books, what is going forward and what is not going forward.

There was discussion in this city, for example, about a $500-million to $600-million new science and technology museum. Apparently that is no longer the case. There was infrastructure money being contemplated for a portrait gallery, but apparently that's no longer the case. There was $30 million of federal money on the table and being held in abeyance for the Congress Centre in this city, with matching funds--$30 million provincial and $30 million municipal. Apparently that's no longer the case. No parliamentarian was informed of the decision to withdraw the $30 million, for example.

There was recent participation by the President of the Treasury Board in an $850-million infrastructure project here in this city. There are rumours that the Minister of Finance intends to intervene in the TTC $400-million funding. The mayor of Vancouver is expressing concern about the $400 million booked for the RAV line, and the mayor of Edmonton is not sure if $108 million booked and forthcoming for infrastructure is going to make it there.

So with all of this activity and the government announcing and occasionally not announcing, disclosing and occasionally not disclosing, occasionally withdrawing booked money without disclosing it to the Canadian people, and announcing new moneys, I thought it would be very helpful for all parliamentarians here and all parties to get a much better indication of where we're going on this front. We're talking about billions and billions of taxpayers' dollars.

There's not a single member of Parliament, despite what anybody would say in the House, who isn't concerned about value for money and the criteria being used to expend public resources. So I want to table this with my colleagues for discussion and perhaps get this addressed forthwith. I think there are so many projects coming down the line that we ought to know more about them.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Russell, do you want to amend it?

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

I would amend it to include the new program that was recently announced in the 2006 budget, which was the highways and border infrastructure program.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

How would that read then?

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

After “responsibility” in the third line it would read: “for the Canadian Strategic Infrastructure Fund, the Municipal Rural Infrastructure Fund, and the Highways and Border Infrastructure Fund to brief the committee on the inventory and progress of major infrastructure projects now underway.”

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Jean.