There's no question that the railways need to be treated fairly as well, and I wouldn't suggest otherwise, but all the power often seems to be on their side.
One of the difficulties in dealing with any of these issues, Mr. Chair, is on how to get real figures when the primary source, as Bernie said, for costing figures is the railways themselves.
Do you have any suggestions on ways for perhaps an independent body that's not so closely tied to the railways to do a better analysis on those figures so that farmers and primary producers can have some confidence that they're getting a fair deal when it comes to dealing with the costs the railways say are in the system?