Transport Committee on Nov. 28th, 2006

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Therefore, you wouldn't have a problem if subsection 3.1(2.1) said: “Guidelines shall be made public.” You would be fine with this, if the amendment stopped there?

[Helena Borges]

Yes, we would.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Fast.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, I have a question and maybe a couple of comments, and the question would be through you to Mr. McGuinty.

I'm trying to understand his concern. He's essentially introducing the whole aspect of specific criteria to be considered by the minister. Is it his concern that there might be conflict between the criteria or the considerations that the minister undertakes and those of the Commissioner of Competition? Is that the issue?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

That's one of the issues. Absolutely.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

All right.

You know, when you read the rest of this particular clause, it goes on to provide for extensive consultation and dovetailing of the jurisdictions of the commissioner and the minister. So I'm not sure it's a concern that is necessarily valid. I don't want to waste the committee's time by reading through 53.1, 53.2, and all the way through to 53.5 and 53.6, etc. If you read them carefully, there's significant dovetailing of those functions between the minister and the commissioner.

Secondly, my concern, Mr. Chair, is that when we move from general legislation towards guidelines, and then, further, to criteria, despite what some might think, we're actually limiting the scope of the legislation. We actually tie government's hands to make decisions in the best interests of Canadians.

I spent years drafting legal documents. I know the dangers of becoming too specific, especially when it's legislation, not just contractual. Down the road, you'll find yourself in a situation where these criteria are actually used to argue against the public interest by those wishing to undertake mergers and acquisitions. I caution this committee about going down this road. It's dangerous, and we may live to regret it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. McGuinty.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I think Mr. Jean was ahead of me, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

No, he was not.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I would respond on a couple of fronts.

Monsieur Langlois, is there another minister in the Government of Canada who possesses the power to review mergers and acquisitions?

[Alain Langlois]

I'm not aware.

[Helena Borges]

There is one for banks, and the Minister of Transport, for air transportation.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Okay. So to our knowledge, the precedent is the banking sector at Finance Canada.

I'm sorry, it would help me to understand.

[Helena Borges]

Well, in Transport, in air issues.

[A voice]

It actually expands into other modes of transportation as well.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

So that's the situation.

[Alain Langlois]

These provisions are already in existence in the CTA for air mergers. The minister does have that power right now for air mergers and acquisitions.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

And those powers were invested in the minister around the time of the acquisition by Air Canada of Canadian Pacific Airlines. Is that right?

[Alain Langlois]

Yes, that's correct.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So they were brought in specifically for the purpose of actually overseeing and empowering the minister to deal with that particular acquisition, right?

[Helena Borges]

Well, yes, but it applies generally to the air mode. Any carrier that fits under the thresholds would be considered

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So now, if I understand this provision, if the Ottawa Central Railway, which runs through my riding--from here to Renfrew or Pembroke, 97 kilometres of track and back, every day, six times a day--were, for example, to be subject to sale, or if it wanted to acquire a smaller railway beside it, it would have to seek and achieve an approval from the Minister of Transport?

[Helena Borges]

Not necessarily. The same thresholds that apply under the Competition Act will apply under this. A transaction under the Competition Act is notifiable above $400 million worth of assets. Basically, this notification applies to the same level. Ottawa Central is a small entity. It wouldn't fit under that threshold.

Secondly, it only applies to federal undertakings. They have to be under federal jurisdiction. That limits quite a bit of the population; there aren't that many carriers under federal jurisdiction.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Just to mention--

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I think Mr. Jean might be able to answer some more of your question.