Curiously—and it's one of our recommendations, I believe number 11—Transport Canada Aviation did not require the effective involvement of workers in the development and implementation of SMS. We were told that it was improper, illegal.
However, if you look at the rail safety SMS in Mr. Julian's glossy brochure, they require worker involvement as security.
These operators have not involved us in the implementation and maintenance of SMS, which is a very curious way to build a culture—from the top down, without the workers involved, particularly when we believe our rights under the code are not being respected. That is a big problem that we've tried to bring to Transport Canada's attention.