Evidence of meeting #5 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ambassador.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Dan Stamper  President, Canadian Transit Company
Matthew Moroun  Vice-Chairman and Principal of Centra Inc., Canadian Transit Company
Skip McMahon  Executive Director of External Affairs, Canadian Transit Company
Phil Benson  Lobbyist, Teamsters Canada

12:35 p.m.

President, Canadian Transit Company

Dan Stamper

Not in Windsor-Detroit, not since we opened the additional booths in mid-2004. Those traffic delays have gone away. Other than on a periodic basis when customs has a security issue and has stopped a truck for radiation, those backups are gone. I will supply you a memo from the Windsor police department saying that when we opened those four booths, those backups went away.

12:35 p.m.

Vice-Chairman and Principal of Centra Inc., Canadian Transit Company

Matthew Moroun

There are some instances when we do have traffic backups inbound to Canada. We've built, as we discussed, a number of additional inspection booths for Canada Customs. While Canada Customs officers are very fine people, a large problem is that there just aren't enough of them. So many times auto traffic does back up inbound to Canada while the red lights are on in the unmanned Canadian Customs booths.

12:35 p.m.

President, Canadian Transit Company

Dan Stamper

I would add that we have real-time video cameras and I'd be glad to send you the website address for this. You can look at real-time video of what's happening at the bridge 24 hours a day.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

Your position with the Michigan House and Senate was quite aggressive, in my opinion anyway. That's what I was doing on my little pinner, finding out what your questions and comments were, but it seemed, in essence, that they're going to pick the next crossing in Detroit. I have to say, since the mikes don't pick up the shaking of heads, the member from Windsor certainly believes that there is a huge bottleneck problem.

Your position, again, with the Michigan House and Senate was very negative about them picking a crossing in your area. Is that not fair to say?

12:35 p.m.

President, Canadian Transit Company

Dan Stamper

No. We were very negative because, similar to what we said here today, the people who are governing our applications and our process were also governing a study to create their own bridge within a mile. Even after identifying in their own study that twinning the Ambassador Bridge was the right thing to do, they took it off the list because of Windsor's objection of adding an 80-acre plaza next to the Ambassador Bridge--and Windsor objected to it. So to say that we made a harsh statement, I said nothing different there from what I'm saying here, and I'd be glad to supply this committee with a copy of my testimony.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

Actually, on that note, I'd really appreciate it if you could table it to the committee. As well, would you be prepared to table the risk assessment that was done on your bridge?

12:35 p.m.

President, Canadian Transit Company

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

Thank you very much.

Those are all my questions, Mr. Chair.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Thank you, Mr. Jean.

That concludes things, unless anyone has any short comments to make to our guests.

Mr. Masse, briefly.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

I just have a question with regard to competition. How many of your other businesses use your facility to cross?

12:35 p.m.

President, Canadian Transit Company

Dan Stamper

When you say our “other businesses”...?

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Transport businesses and other operations.

12:35 p.m.

President, Canadian Transit Company

Dan Stamper

I would say that ours, as well as everybody else's, cross due to miles and time. Our facility is used by some of our own trucking companies, and so is the Blue Water Bridge, so is the barge, and so is the tunnel. So it's not dedicated. We do not dedicate our own trucking companies to our bridge.

12:40 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

So you don't know how many of your own vehicles cross your own bridge.

12:40 p.m.

President, Canadian Transit Company

Dan Stamper

I don't know today. If you want to find that out, I'll be glad to help you. I'll offer this. You're from our area, and we would love to sit down with you and talk through some of the stuff, Mr. Masse. We believe that you could bring some clarity to the border, and we would hope that by sitting down we could do that.

12:40 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

I'm always available.

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Thank you.

With that, I'll thank you very much for your attendance today, and presentation. It's certainly been enlightening for us all.

12:40 p.m.

President, Canadian Transit Company

Dan Stamper

Thank you for the opportunity, and we will forward some additional material.

12:40 p.m.

Vice-Chairman and Principal of Centra Inc., Canadian Transit Company

Matthew Moroun

And we were serious about the tour as well.

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

I think that will be something we will discuss at a committee. Thanks.

Now, just for the committee itself.... Have we covered everybody, or do we have one more?

I'm sorry, we have Mr. Benson to come forward, and I apologize for the delay.

I think while they're setting it up, I'll just advise the committee that the minister is making himself available for Thursday's meeting. He'll be here at 11 o'clock, and I suspect we're going to want most of that timeframe to have a discussion with him, if that's agreeable to the committee.

Mr. Benson, I'm sorry for the time limitations, but I ask you to present and we'll then have some questions.

12:40 p.m.

Phil Benson Lobbyist, Teamsters Canada

That's not a problem, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you so much for having us here. I did promise the clerk that I would not be taking a lot of your time.

Teamsters Canada represents about 130,000 workers in Canada: in agriculture, fisheries, film, fashion, and of course in air, road, rail, and ports. We're Canada's transportation union with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters in the United States, representing over 1.8 million members in North America. I would imagine that on any given day, an awful lot of the traffic going across the border will be teamsters.

We also have interests in bridges, roads, and tunnels going across the border, because teamsters are proud to represent workers who look after a lot of the bridges and tunnels, including the Ambassador Bridge.

We're pleased that the government split the previous bill and put it into more manageable components. Simply put, to try to come here for ten minutes, when we represent all modes of transportation, to deal with all modes of transportation would make it extremely difficult and perhaps somewhat schizophrenic.

This was probably the one chunk of the bill we had the least problems with, per se. It codifies existing practices in a certain regard; or perhaps in the post-9/11 world, it adds needed legislative authority to deal with what is a very pressing and important issue: the transportation of goods and services—or goods in this case—across the border.

We do have concerns, mostly for what is not in the bill, rather than for what is. As to issues, such as facilities requiring government permission for maintenance, etc., we have concerns about what that means to our members who have to do the work. We have concerns for our employers—the people who own the facilities and provide employment to our membership—and for our members who are crossing the bridges, which costs their employers. Also, regarding the general public good, what does it means to the rest of our economy and the people who rely on the just-in-time delivery and its various aspects?

Again, I think that's something that probably will be dealt with later in the regulatory part. Of course, we would welcome the opportunity to be consulted and have our viewpoints and expertise taken into concern.

Another problem is the facilities themselves, or the lack of facilities. We're going to deal with the two issues. Clearly there's been a massive growth in trade, even in the post-9/11 world. Last year I had the opportunity to tour most of the bridges and tunnels going to the United States, literally just to see the business. I toured several of them. There's certainly a need from the transportation sector. We talked about the delays, the costs, the overall burden to truckers, and so on. We have to remember that at the end of the day, we know the consumers might pay more, but the trucker stuck at a border is losing money, and not all truckers get paid for that time.

So one aspect is infrastructure. Is anything in this bill going to make it easier to provide infrastructure? Now we're locked into a bilateral process, and the best I can tell from it.... The Ambassador Bridge twinning and the Detroit River tunnel project were both pulled—quite interestingly, because we happened to support the tunnel project and somewhat the Ambassador Bridge. Of course, the question is that they are the two that are almost ready to go, if you like.

So we're really looking at what, 10 to 12 years? We're not sure if anything in the bill is going to deal with that issue.

Last year there was a major review on security, and Teamsters Canada was the only organization that sat on every single mode of transport. We are familiar with it, supportive of it, and supportive of different aspects of it.

One of the problems with the bridges—or with the access point—isn't necessarily the infrastructure. It has to do with how we deal with the reality of the American demands and our need for security. We have the interim FAST pass—and I'm very pleased that the “interim” part is underlined—versus Transport Canada's security clearance. The latter protects the privacy of our members, due process of union rights, and also the rule of law. The indication we have is that we'll be moving towards a made-in-Canada solution, and we support that greatly.

On the bilateral process and others, our voice isn't really heard. We're not consulted. Working with our IBT brothers and sisters in the United States, we're not looking for a border; we're looking for a secure pipeline. We're looking for ways to guarantee that no matter what happens, key goods and services can go across the border. We're looking forward to working with government and any parties that share that concern and how we get there.

In total, thanks for splitting the bill. We think it's probably needed. We will let the companies and others talk about their concerns. We won't talk about them. But just remember, when we talk about health and safety and security, it will be our members who will face those burdens. It will be our members who will be on the bridge, and in some cases, our members who respond. We desperately want to be part of consultations and discussions, making it clear that we find it difficult to come in after the fact.

That's all our presentation. Thank you for giving me the few minutes of your time. If you have any questions, I'll either do my best to answer them or I will try to get you answers.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

12:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Thank you, Mr. Benson.

Because of time constraints, what I'm going to do is ask Mr. Laframboise to ask one question, and then I'll go around and we'll get everybody in if they choose.

12:45 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

You've commented on the proposed legislation in general, Mr. Benson, and I get the impression that you weren't consulted at all during the drafting process. Is that correct?

12:45 p.m.

Lobbyist, Teamsters Canada

Phil Benson

No, we have not been party to consultations, though it was a previous bill. It was not unexpected.

To say it was completely in the blank, no, we did have some discussions with people; however, as to the formal consultation process, no.

12:45 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

You say that in future, you would like to make Transport Canada aware of the situation, because everything that involves the movement of goods, services and persons inevitably also affects the Teamsters and the major labour organizations in Canada and the United States. Correct?