Transport Committee on May 30th, 2007

[Franz Reinhardt]

Well, we believe it is not necessary. We were reminded by the Privy Council Office that we have to be very careful to ensure that proposed amendments are within the ambit of the memorandum to cabinet decision. I'm not so sure that amending proposed section 4.9 and adding all those new provisions would be considered by the Privy Council Office as within the ambit of the memorandum to cabinet records of decision.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Mr. Chairman, I have listened very attentively to the arguments. With a great deal of respect to my Liberal and Bloc colleagues, I do think two amendments are called for if we are moving forward with BQ-9. Mr. Bell was correct in enumerating some of the differences. The two most critical, I think, though, are making sure that there is involvement of employees in the ongoing operation of an applicable safety management system. The “ongoing operation” is not in the BQ.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Volpe.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

In subparagraph (iv), I thought that's what you'd--

[An hon. member]

He added “ongoing”.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I see.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

We're going to call the question on BQ-9.

Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

I put forward an amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

And what was it?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

We add to subparagraph (iv) of BQ-9.

We would add the words "ongoing operation".

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Can you read it one more time for me, please? We're on subparagraph (iv).

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

You would add the words "ongoing operation".

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

And in English?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

At the moment, the amendment reads as follows:I would add the words "and ongoing operation... of the system". So the amendment would read as follows:—the involvement of employees and their bargaining agents in the development, implementation and ongoing operation of the applicable—system—

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, again on that amendment, could I ask staff to comment on what's just been proposed?

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Reinhardt.

[Franz Reinhardt]

I'd like Ms. Stanfield to comment on this. The way it is worded now, there's also a change in the applicability. It seems it would only apply to Nav Canada as opposed to all the others, and this is of extreme importance. SMS is applicable to all types of operations, not just Nav Canada.

So worded this way, we had difficulty with the old wording, so that's why we thought that proposed section 5.39 is properly worded, addressing all the operations. And as well, as Mr. Volpe said, there will be other amendments coming to proposed section 5.39 that are taking care of other issues. We believe it is not necessary here, and if it were, it would need to be again amended to cover all operations, and not just Nav Canada.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Can I disagree with what Mr. Julian has proposed?

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Volpe.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

When I referred to the other clauses in the bill, I'd agreed, I suppose, in part with Mr. Reinhardt's assessment that these issues are covered already by another clause. That didn't appear to be the consensus around the table, at least to me, but you're the one who's calling the consensus.

But I don't think the word “ongoing” is necessary in this. So unless Mr. Laframboise has a serious objection, I think we should just move on with this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

We have a subamendment to Mr. Laframboise's amendment by Mr. Julian. I'm going to read it, and then I'm going to ask the question. It is:

(iv) the involvement of employees and their bargaining agents in the ongoing development and implementation of the applicable safety management system or program

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Sorry, Mr. Chair. It reads:

(iv) the involvement of employees and their bargaining agents in the development, implementation and ongoing operation of the applicable safety management system

It is one thing to develop; it is another to assist in implementation; it is a third for employees to be involved in the ongoing operation. Certainly, from all the testimony we heard, we were told that this was a good thing. It was an important component to ensure the success of safety management systems.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

For clarification, it reads:

(iv) the involvement of employees and their bargaining agents in the development, implementation and ongoing operation of the applicable safety management system

Mr. Volpe.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I don't want to sound like any of the officials or anybody who's nitpicking on this, but if I were representing the unions on this, or any of the employees, I would say that this restricts me on anything that develops down the road. I don't know why I would do that if I were representing employees in labour. I'm hoping Mr. Julian will reflect on that for just a quick second and say, I'm not here to restrict people's opportunity to be a part of the decision-making; I'm actually here to enhance it.

If he wants to have a vote on it, we'll have it, but I'll vote no.

(Subamendment negatived)