Transport Committee on May 8th, 2008

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

As discussions go forward, I would like to be able to get the framework agreement with the Province of Ontario done by the beginning or the middle of the summer at the earliest.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Jean.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming today.

My question is going to be a bit different and on a different topic. I know we've taken some great steps as a government on the safety and security of Canadians and also on the environment specifically, in a lot of areas. I know that $160 million over two years was invested by this government in the ecoAUTO strategy, and--great news--some 77,000 Canadians made applications. Actually, we've rolled out just over $51 million for those initiatives, so we're trying to get more fuel-efficient vehicles onto our roads, and I think that's great news for the health of Canadians and the future of our children.

But recently--I think it was this week or last week--The Economist said that we're blocking the sale of ZENN cars in Canada. That's a great concern to me, because obviously I, as would most Canadians, would like to be non-gas-dependent, be able to plug my vehicle into my house, and be able to take off in the mornings. So I'm very interested in that. I know provincial and territorial governments actually regulate the use of vehicles on our roadways, but I'd like to have a bit more information about whether indeed Transport Canada is blocking the sale of these vehicles in Canada.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Let me say at the outset that Transport Canada is not blocking. Transport Canada's job, so to speak, is to see whether or not the vehicles that go on Canadian roads are safe. Transport Canada has looked at this vehicle. I've had an opportunity of stating this on several occasions. Transport Canada has looked at the safety of this vehicle, and has determined that it falls into the category of being a fuel-efficient vehicle for low-speed services.

As you know, Transport Canada does not tell a province it can or cannot have that car on its roads. Transport Canada determines the safety. Then the provinces individually determine whether or not they want that vehicle on their roads and under what conditions. All we do is say this vehicle is safe at such and such a speed, or it isn't safe at such and such a speed. That's our responsibility. We have a team of experts who work on that. They determine whether or not it is life-threatening or not life-threatening, injury prone or not injury prone. But it is the job of the provinces to issue licences. They're the ones that determine that a vehicle can go on a golf course or it can go in a small residential sector or it can go on a highway. The federal government doesn't determine that. It's the provinces that determine that.

I repeat this, because there is some confusion out there, some feeling that the Government of Canada is deliberately trying to thwart an entrepreneur's attempts to sell his vehicles in Canada. That's not the case. We say whether your vehicle is safe or isn't safe. Then you can go out and convince the provinces where they should run these vehicles. Those are the rules and the regulations--particularly the regulations--that have been put in place by the Government of Canada over a number of years. That's our responsibility.

On fuel efficiency, I think you alluded before to the fact that we brought in a program. As we move towards more fuel-efficient vehicles, we have to be able to, on the one hand--and that was the purpose of coming in with our eco-package--get consumers to look at and change their behavioural patterns in terms of purchasing vehicles that are more fuel efficient.

As you know, we are going to be putting forward regulations that will be the most stringent, dominant North American standard. We're going to be working with the auto manufacturers on those. We'll be working with the interested parties. We'll be working with provincial governments on those issues. We'll be working with retailers. I know that my colleague Mr. Volpe and I, as well as other members, I believe, of this committee, were at the retailers association of Canada, where we were, as a matter of fact, talking about this issue. It's extremely important that the Government of Canada and Canadians speak with one voice on this.

There are, of course, concerns about the environment, but there are also concerns about jobs and job creation, and we're trying to balance both of these issues.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

It's good to see you're keeping Canadians safe. Indeed, my understanding, after speaking to the department, is that ZENN is actually intending to have a fully safety-certified electric car in the fall of 2009, so that's good news for consumers who want to go that route.

I'm also curious. We've made, as a federal government, some great initiatives in major centres like Montreal and Toronto and Vancouver in rail and transit security and rail and transit investments. Are the provinces supportive of our approach to rail and transit security? Do they view us as being effective in this?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Well, once again, here we are. We're in our area of jurisdiction, our area of responsibility, and we want to be able to make sure that the amounts of money that are provided, in terms of security, are well spent. Indeed, you're right. I look at urban transit, for instance, as one of the sectors we've helped over the year and a half. We've helped transit authorities throughout the country, whether they be in Toronto or Montreal or even here in Ottawa or elsewhere, to modernize their equipment, their radio communications equipment, their surveillance equipment. We're not immune from any terrorist threat. And I do not say this flippantly. This is an important issue. We have to be able to go forward and make sure that public services that are used are safe.

I know, going back to my previous life as chair of the transit authority on the other side of the river here, I remember my predecessor, as a matter of fact, coming to meet me and discuss this as an important issue. And it is an important issue, because on a yearly basis, particularly with the Ottawa and the Gatineau system, there are over 50 million passengers that embark on these buses, and that is multiplied throughout the country.

So we have to remain vigilant. We have to be able to come forward and put in the proper amounts of money to be able to make sure that Canadians feel safe and secure when they use these public facilities. And that goes for ferries, for urban transit, and for our ports. It's a necessity of life now in the year 2008.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

As we traditionally do, we're going to open the floor up for a couple of final questions of two minutes each. I'll start with Mr. Volpe.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Minister, I'm going to use a different approach, if you don't mind. I'll list off a series of questions, and then you can go ahead.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Is that the Mr. Zed approach?

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I was a little surprised to hear you say that the capital infrastructure trust that you have started is for $500 million, $200 million of it for the Peterborough-to-Toronto line. That would represent, apparently, all of the amounts of money set aside for Ontario. I wonder whether that's a misperception on my part or whether that's an accurate reflection of the figures, as you've put them.

Secondly, with respect to high-speed train travel, that's been studied ever since I've been here. We started at $2 billion, when I first came here, and I heard you say $20 billion. If life is for learning, then that high-speed travel must be for environmental assessments and feasibility studies, I guess. I don't know how much we've spent on that so far. Maybe you would tell us how much we have spent on feasibility studies and if that amount has already exceeded the initial $2 billion allocated.

Thirdly, I noticed you've almost doubled the amount of money you've put as a federal subsidy to VIA Rail. I'm wondering whether that reflects a doubling of the ridership or whether it's a doubling of the subsidy per capita. It used to be, a few short years ago, about $64 per passenger. Is it your intention to encourage ridership by doubling that subsidy?

Fourthly, let me get onto the ecoAUTO rebate for a second. Since safety on the highways, as well as environmental efficiency, is a concern of yours, apparently, I'm wondering whether you've had an opportunity to take a look at my private member's bill regarding electronic stability control and its impact both on the efficiency of the fuel emissions and, most importantly, on the safety of ridership on the highways, and whether you intend to support that bill or replace it with one of your own.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

On the last question, no, I haven't had the opportunity, but I certainly will look at it with a great deal of pleasure. I'll get back to you on it.

On the transit trust fund, the $195 million, that of course will be complemented, once the joint study is completed, by moneys coming from the Building Canada funds. I'm not saying this project has topped that, but just to reassure you, depending on the results of the feasibility study, or the joint study, we will have access to the Building Canada funds to help promote that project.

In terms of the feasibility studies for the Windsor-Quebec corridor, you're right, there have been numerous studies. My deputy minister--

[An hon. member]

He's still chuckling.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

He is still chuckling. He actually started in the department 30 years ago, I think, when they were talking about that project. So he's facetiously saying...you know, kicking me under the table here.

Basically, that study, as I mentioned to Madam Hall Findlay, will be able to give us a general appreciation of what the cost is going to be. It was at $18 billion to $20 billion last time around, I think with the public sector paying about 80% of the amount of money. So that has to be looked at.

Yes, we indeed have invested $692 million, or $672 million or whatever, into VIA Rail. The idea here is to be able to modernize its infrastructure. Some of the locomotives, particularly the F40 locomotives, are old locomotives and need to be refurbished. VIA Rail's board of directors made the case to us that it was extremely important for them to go forward, make these changes, and have the more environmentally friendly type of locomotive that they're putting forward.

Given that fact, as well as the importance of maintaining the reliability of the VIA network, they want to be able to double some of their lines where there is a lot of congestion to assure that inter-city travel passenger services will be at their peak and operate in a proficient way.

On the ecoAUTO rebate program, I'm sorry, I didn't get the last part of the question. Maybe you just want to run it by me quickly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Very briefly, to be fair to others.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I want to be fair to others, so if we get another chance at two minutes, I'd be delighted to go there.

I tried to relate that to the ESC system that I presented in November. I think you answered that; I'm kind of surprised that wasn't your first item of priority, after I did that in November....

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Well, I did answer that as the first one.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Laframboise.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thank you very much.

Minister, you refer to agreements with respect to the Building Canada Plan. Am I correct in saying that the agreement with Quebec has not yet been signed?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

No, it has not yet been announced.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Yes, exactly.

There was the UMQ Convention, the discussions in the hallway and all the rest of it.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

That sounds like what a former mayor would say.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

What is the role of CBED in this area? Is it you or CBED negotiating the agreement with Quebec? Since your government came to office, a new player, CBED, has come on the scene that wasn't around when the Liberals were in office. Based on current discussions and rumours, CBED is the source of the more stringent requirements.

Are you the ones negotiating this?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

I have the mandate to negotiate with the Quebec Minister of Finance.