Evidence of meeting #11 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was arctic.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Captain Donovan, you said that you do not currently have the equipment that you need for the protection or the surveillance of this territory. If something happened, would you be able to call on air support from NORAD?
Capt(N) Casper Donovan
We have several kinds of equipment that we can use for surveillance. But, on site in the Arctic, we have less equipment for ground surveillance. However, the department and the Canadian Forces have various kinds of equipment that we can use, depending on the area and the situation.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
And you would never see a reason to request NORAD involvement?
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
For air surveillance or anything else. You are able to do it without...
Capt(N) Casper Donovan
We work every day with NORAD, with the other departments here and with other federal departments on all the activities we are discussing. I am not an expert in the area, but I know that one of the headquarters responsible for this kind of activity is under Canadian command. Canada has direct links with NORAD and other similar organizations.
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Do you know if this famous “zizigue“ line is inside or outside the 200 nautical miles?
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Mr. Grenier, one of our problems is knowing who will run this operation in the north, who needs to be put in charge. Is the Department of Fisheries and Oceans going to be responsible?
Deputy Commissioner, Maritimes Services, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The quick answer is no.
The Coast Guard supports the RCMP in defence and border services. From the point of view of intelligence, we are trying to develop a kind of common picture of everything that goes on in the Arctic. In the summer, with NORDREG—a voluntary system that could change—we have a good idea of the location of ships in the Arctic and we send that information to Transport Canada and to other departments that ask for it. As well as a photograph of the ships, we provide information about the direction they are heading in, the ice conditions, and so on.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Professor Pelletier told us that we do not have the equipment and that even the icebreaker that we are going to build will not be able to check all our territory out. Is that true?
Deputy Commissioner, Maritimes Services, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We are still at the definition stage, but the concept is to build what we call a “three-season“ icebreaker. It will not be a “four-season“ vessel. In January, February and March, when the ice is thickest, the ship will not be able to go anywhere in the Arctic.
Bloc
Deputy Commissioner, Maritimes Services, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Not at all.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
A little earlier, you said that surveillance could become something we have to do. Is that one of the objectives of this bill? We cannot see it specified in the bill, but once the bill is passed, is it your intention to make surveillance mandatory?
Deputy Commissioner, Maritimes Services, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I think that the NORDREG reporting system should become mandatory. Ships should have to report.
Deputy Commissioner, Maritimes Services, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Instead of 100 miles, it would be 200 miles. It would depend on the line.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Right.
Let us talk about the environmental aspects. Mr. Bagnell pointed it out earlier, but Professor Pelletier told us that we could not do a recovery operation. We should not even think about an oil spill, at those temperatures and in those waters, because we do not have the technology to recover the petroleum.
Am I wrong to say that?
Executive Director, Environmental Assessment and Marine Program, Department of the Environment
As I said, I'm not aware of any technologies we have that can recover oil from beneath the glace, but I'm also not familiar with all elements of our research program. I can get back to you if there's research under way in that area.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
The professor told us, in fact, that, in order to address that, we need a treaty. So we will have to negotiate with all user countries, or all Arctic countries, as is done in the Antarctic. We need a genuine environmental treaty.
Are you working on that? Has the government given you the mandate to try to come up with a treaty? The professor was very kind. He said that it could be the Ottawa Treaty, that it could be a way to bring all countries together. Since a spill is almost unthinkable, we have to make sure that all Arctic countries take part in the discussions. Do you have a mandate like that?
Executive Director, Environmental Assessment and Marine Program, Department of the Environment
We don't have a specific mandate to negotiate a treaty like you've described. We have negotiated a number of treaties that implicate pollution prevention in the marine environment, so we're party to a number of treaties, including the Antarctic. But as for that treaty you're describing, we don't have a mandate to negotiate something like that.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Do I have a little time left?
We support this bill. But I want it clearly understood that the Bloc Québécois is interested in a genuine effort on the environment. We cannot just ignore the disaster that a spill would cause. Passing a bill and planning a response are not enough. We cannot even contemplate a situation like that.
We are told that funds to make the research possible would be forthcoming. Do you have that impression? Has the government told you that passing this bill would give you more resources to conduct more research so that spills could be prevented?
Executive Director, Environmental Assessment and Marine Program, Department of the Environment
That's a good question. We do have active research programs in the north. Could they be larger, and could they be more extensive? Of course they could be.
