Transport Committee on May 12th, 2009

[Roger Pomerleau, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

If it is elsewhere, we can assume that—

[Helena Borges]

Yes, we will have to make that decision later and assess how many passengers use the service already, whether there is significant ridership. It is too early to say.

[Roger Pomerleau, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Okay. If necessary, I could tell my constituents that either they will have HSR or the HSR will be elsewhere and they will keep the conventional service they love.

[Helena Borges]

It is too early to say. I cannot answer.

[Roger Pomerleau, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

It is too early to say. Okay.

[Helena Borges]

Yes.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Except that in the case of Drummondville, if it were on the north shore, on the other side of the river, it would not be in the same corridor at all.

[Helena Borges]

It is too early to say.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

In your presentation, you said that the airline industry had changed since 1995. What did you mean?

[Helena Borges]

In 1995, there were two national airlines: Air Canada and Canadian Airlines. There were also a number of other carriers, such as Nordair and Air Atlantic. People had more choice than they do today. Today, there is Air Canada and, on a few routes, there is WestJet. Other airlines also offer other routes. There is significant consolidation of the airline industry, which can have an impact on travellers' choice of mode of transportation.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Delays can also be a factor. Since 1995, a number of security measures have been introduced in airports, causing delays.

[Helena Borges]

Yes. That is very important. Currently, when someone takes a plane, they have to arrive an hour in advance, then the trip itself may take an hour or an hour and a half, and it can take a long time to get out of the airport. It is important to compare the full length of a train trip to that of a plane trip. In my opinion, the two are starting to be more comparable than 15 years ago.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

You started by defining the three types of rail service. The 1995 study found that there was not much difference in the development costs for higher speed rail and high speed rail, likely because of the condition of the rails. The study concluded that only high speed rail proposals should be analyzed. That was the conclusion.

Has work been done on the rails so that higher speed rail would have a greater likelihood of happening today, or are the objectives still the same?

[Helena Borges]

At present, we are looking at high speed trains. We are investing in a higher speed system with VIA Rail, but there are limits. A higher speed system always involves cost sharing. That is the problem. I think we will see great improvements with the investments VIA Rail is starting to make. It will take a little time, but I think it is a way to see whether VIA Rail can improve the trip and its service quality and whether more people will want to take the train instead of flying or driving.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

In your opinion, how long will it take for VIA Rail to complete its improvements?

[Helena Borges]

It will take three to five years.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Merci.

Mr. Mayes.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Just as a point of order, Mr. Chair, I just found out I have a speech in the House on Bill C-7 at five o'clock, and I spoke to Mr. Volpe about this. I was wondering if we could have consent to deal with my motion at this stage. We have had some discussions in relation to possible options on the motion and a friendly amendment.

Is that possible?

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

If it's the will of the committee.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I apologize to the witnesses for that, but it shouldn't take more than a few minutes. I would like to move a motion, and I'll read it into the record in English:

That, given complaints voiced by air travelers, the Motions and Private Members' Business from parties, and the recent actions taken by some airlines, the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities conduct a detailed study to compare the potential economic and consumer impacts of these measures with international norms and practices. The study will evaluate these options with respect to service levels and protection for consumers, the practical impact on air service providers and on Canadian jobs and competitiveness.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Comments?

Mr. Dhaliwal.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, I'm sure the committee members are well aware that a private member's bill, Bill C-310, is in front of the House and we are going to vote on that tomorrow. And once this bill is either voted down or is voted for, and the committee does its work, then we'll do the study part of that bill anyway, so I don't see that there is any need to have a motion of this kind at this time, when we have a private member's bill coming to us as a committee. We'll do our job there.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

May I respond to that, Mr. Chair, just very quickly.

I have had the opportunity to review letters and particular issues that have been brought forward by some thirty carriers that service Canada that are not in favour of this particular bill--and it's obviously Bill C-310--including many other stakeholders, the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, and so on. And in fact, I'm from a northern community, like some of the members here, and I've had particular discussions with Air Canada and WestJet in relation to concerns about many of the airports in northern Canada shutting down and isolating communities as a result of this. Many of the air carriers do not service communities in Newfoundland and other areas because of, quite frankly, compensation and cancellation issues with this particular bill if it is passed. This is of real concern, especially to Newfoundland, and I have some 35,000 Newfoundlanders in my particular riding, and those airlines are telling me that they will not service many of the cities in Newfoundland during the entire winter because of this particular bill, if it's passed, and the issues with snow and snowfall.

So I do believe this bill has particular ramifications, and my proposal is basically not only to study Bill C-310 but also to study the economic impact to Air Canada and particularly rural communities and, in fact, service providers. So that's why I brought forward the motion.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I think concern has been expressed by all members around the table regarding Bill C-310. So while I haven't had an opportunity to rewrite any of the things, I hope that Mr. Jean, on behalf of the government, will accept what I take in a friendly fashion, and maybe we can deal with this very expeditiously.

If you don't mind, I'll read it out, and maybe the clerk can tell me whether it's in order or not. It may be the will of the committee to accept the intent of it the way I read it. I haven't had an opportunity to make the changes in French. Monsieur Laframboise, I hope you will bear with me.

I'm not sure that I want to use “given the complaints”, but:

That, given that this committee has received concerns by air travellers, given the motion passed in the House unanimously, and given the private member's Bill C-310, which may come to this committee in the next 48 hours, the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, as part of its study on Bill C-310, include a comparison of the potential economic and consumer impacts of these measures with international norms and practices. Further, that the committee evaluate these impacts with respect to service levels, protection for consumers, air service providers, and on Canadian jobs and competitiveness.

I apologize if the grammar isn't completely perfect, given this, but I hope that the parliamentary secretary will take that comment. I think that on behalf of their parties, Monsieur Laframboise and Mr. Bevington will accept that we're trying to expand what will happen.