Evidence of meeting #19 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was going.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Not the least of which is to play the leadership role in developing that market.
5:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Railway Association of Canada
Precisely.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
For the public who may be readers of the blues, I want to set the record straight. We were talking earlier about the incredible cost associated with putting a high-speed rail system into Canada. Someone said that Canadians in 1995 would have been looking at $15 billion, an astronomical figure. But the 1995 study that we were given sets the figure for the Toronto-to-Montreal segment at $5.4 billion.
With respect to assimilation of land and associated issues, the study we were given says that “No high-speed rail system has ever been designed that currently operates at speeds of over 200 kilometres per hour in climatic conditions comparable to those in Canada. Such conditions include freeze-thaw cycles, extremely low temperatures, and wide temperature variations, either daily or seasonally.”
It goes on to give a little bit of a discussion about the weather conditions. It says that “In France there is practically no tolerance for vertical movement of the high-speed rail tracks. This is significantly different from Canadian rail or road conditions. The major challenge remains in the design and construction of stable track structures under the demanding freeze-thaw and geotechnical conditions found in the Quebec-Windsor corridor.”
In Ontario we have significant differences of geography, even between Toronto and Montreal. In Ontario, we now have the protection of the Oak Ridges Moraine legislation of 1998, which is going to affect anything that goes on in this study. Highway 404 goes directly up the east side of my riding, between Aurora and Newmarket. The extension would go north around Lake Simcoe. This is in the planning stages and has been announced several times, but the environmental assessments have been holding it up for years.
When we're looking at total costs, are we considering all of these factors in the $15 billion? Are any environmental assessments that have been done in the past applicable on a go-forward basis?
5:15 p.m.
Founder, High Speed Rail Canada
About the cost-benefit analysis and the risks involved with this project, the studies all go into it. There have been so many studies about cost-benefit and risk analysis having to do with this. There is a new study from the University of Montreal that's just about cost-benefit analysis methodologies. There is a certain risky business to saying this is going to cost x billion dollars, because it's such a big project. You might be off, because things come up.
Does high-speed rail have an environmental footprint? Yes, it does, significantly. You can't deny that. We're going to be taking land, and maybe it is 40% less than a six-lane highway, but there is going to be an environmental footprint there. Let's not deny that.
The last thing is about the cold. In 1995, could the technology handle the cold of the Canadian climate? In 14 years, since 1995, things have changed. I gave the example—and I didn't mean to give it so many times—of St. Petersburg in Moscow.
5:15 p.m.
Founder, High Speed Rail Canada
Yes, it has been built. It's being tested right now.
To go one step further, we have a fellow from Siemens at our talks. Siemens, of course, has the light-rail system in Edmonton. That light-rail system has worked for decades now. When people around the world ask him about extreme cold, he gives the example of Edmonton and the light rail.
So there are two examples. We already have a product in Edmonton from a company that right now also has a high-speed product that will be going between 200 and 250 kilometres an hour in the Russian climate. By the time we get on board with this, if any issues do come up in Russia, it will be old news. That was an issue in the 1960s when we first had a high-speed train called the Turbo. That was a big issue, but that issue is now gone.
5:15 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Railway Association of Canada
Briefly, regarding the environment, I'll make a couple of points.
First, I think the recent harmonization will be very helpful. If there are requirements, at least they won't be duplicating each other between governments.
Secondly, the degree to which environmental assessments will inhibit the front-end of the project will very much depend on the corridors. For example, it was mentioned that perhaps you could use some existing corridors for rail. There are corridors for existing transmission systems and there are corridors, frankly, for highway systems that could all be possible candidates as corridors for high-speed rail. To the degree to which you can do that, you would significantly mitigate the environmental risk.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
I asked our presenters on Tuesday about the hydro corridors, property that has already been set aside and is not being used for other purposes. Would those be part of the consideration?
5:15 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Railway Association of Canada
Obviously the provincial government would have to make a judgment on that, but they certainly should be considered, assuming that their configuration makes some sense in terms of the traffic patterns you're trying to design for. I believe all those kinds of existing right of ways should be looked at in terms of what the configuration looks like and whether you can efficiently use them.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
Thank you.
Unless there are any other comments, I would like to thank our guests for being here today. Again, I think you have provided us with lots of information and discussion for the future.
For the committee, we have Bombardier and the Canadian Airports Council attending on Tuesday, our first day back, and we have several other invitations that are being firmed up as we speak.
I wish you a good break week in your constituency, and have a nice weekend.
The meeting is adjourned.