Evidence of meeting #19 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was going.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
I was interested in the discussion about express and local and how that would work with the high-speed rail.
Would the local, then, be on the high-speed track? It would be separate. So you'd have to have a condition where the connector routes to the high-speed would be in a separate location?
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Railway Association of Canada
What you would have to do is ensure that local rail or local bus or local metro, or whatever it is, would in fact connect into a node where people could transfer from one to the other.
The high-speed rail is a unique kind of rail. I don't want to get into all the technological side, but you don't run regular trains on a high-speed track.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Railway Association of Canada
One of the nice things about high-speed is that it stops very quickly and it goes very quickly.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Railway Association of Canada
In some cases, but not every five minutes. You know what I mean? You're going to have those stations far enough apart that it makes some sense in terms of the efficiency of the system.
So you still need other modes or other parts of the system that feed. That's exactly how the models have been developed in other parts of the world.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Yes. Because I've travelled in Japan on the high-speed rail, and it's quite marvellous how they send a train down that track every three or four minutes at speeds of approaching 300 kilometres per hour.
And I've travelled in Europe on the French rail system. But with the French system, it's much more integrated between high speed and really low speed and a variety of services.
But you're saying these things would be separate—
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Railway Association of Canada
I don't mean to say they're separate. They just don't operate on exactly the same track.
For example, let's take the French system. If you go from Lyon to Paris, there are a number of stops along the way. At those stops, if you looked at a map, you would see all sorts of feeder rail lines going into that particular stop. They would be operating on low-speed local regional service and they connect into the TGV and away you go.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
For instance, then, Ottawa would connect into the Toronto-Montreal run with a low-speed train.
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Railway Association of Canada
It's hard to say. Ottawa has well over a million people in the immediate area, so frankly it may very well be a candidate for a high-speed rather than a local connection.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
And then you would probably need more rail, at least one or two more rails in the same corridor that would be handling the low-speed traffic. So how many rails are we talking about here?
4:55 p.m.
Founder, High Speed Rail Canada
The existing rail system would still exist between passenger and freight. What we're talking about—
4:55 p.m.
Founder, High Speed Rail Canada
No. The high-speed would be on a different location, but the traditional VIA, let's say, would still exist the way it is now. It may change. Right? But you'll have a high-speed on a different track. It's not going to be next to—
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
So you wouldn't have these things going to the same terminal in each community?
4:55 p.m.
Founder, High Speed Rail Canada
In large communities, you would meet. Right?
I'll give you a good example. The honourable member Dean Del Mastro is from Peterborough. This is a great example. His idea is to go up through Peterborough high-speed into Ottawa. It's a good idea. There was a rail line there. I appreciate that somebody's coming forward with some imagination.
Does that mean Kingston is not going to get any more rail? No. Kingston is probably going to get more trains running on their traditional VIA track, and then it's going to have the high-speed go up toward Ottawa.
Now, I'm not saying that's going to happen. I'm just trying to give you that as an example.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair. What a great opportunity to have another question.
I want to talk a little bit about how important this is to our country, especially in one particular place that right now is the economic engine of the country. That is Fort McMurray and Alberta in general, including Edmonton and Calgary.
As you know, that is my constituency. I'm very interested in seeing some action take place between Edmonton and Calgary as well, and I know the provincial government has moved forward with a couple of studies. I think it was between $1 billion and $2 billion at one time.
I wonder, has that number gone up or down as a result of the cost of construction and the situation we currently face?
5 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Railway Association of Canada
I can't answer that. They haven't released the 2007 study, which is the most recent. The understanding we have from talking to people involved in that is that at that time the cost looked more like $4 billion to $5 billion all up, but that was frankly at a time when, as you know better than I do, things were pretty heated in the construction sector.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
I was paying, in Fort McMurray, over $20 an hour for people to put sandwiches together, so I understand perfectly.
What I'm curious about, though, from a general perspective, not specifically in terms of that study, is whether the cost of construction has gone down substantially in the rail industry since the $1 billion to $2 billion cost estimate. That's what I'm interested in, because we can move people from one part of the country to another on a temporary basis, the same as we did when we built the great railway across the country. So is this the time? Is this the opportunity to save money and also put Canadians to work?
5 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Railway Association of Canada
Generally speaking, the price of steel and the price of aggregates are all down substantially, anywhere from 15% to 30%, some of them even more. Labour, of course, as you know, is readily available. So if you were going to embark on a major undertaking of this nature, I would be strongly advising you to try to lock in your contracts as soon as possible.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
With respect, you know this particular government is moving full steam ahead on a stimulus package. So our resources right now are stretched to the limit because we're so busy trying to get money out to Canadians.
Has your organization looked at the cost savings that could happen, actually, and put that forward to the provincial government in Alberta? I think that would be a good move from your own organization's perspective, and to do that earlier rather than later.
5 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Railway Association of Canada
At the moment, the short answer is no, we have not. We'll certainly take it under advisement. One of our difficulties is that so far the Alberta government has not seen fit to share the study. If we knew what the study said, it would be a very easy thing to give them some advice on what has happened with the construction costs in the short term.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
But to be fair, you do know what the $1 billion to $2 billion study said. You have some data from that.
I would encourage you to do so. I think most Albertans would really appreciate that, as would most Canadians, because as you know, there are some 85,000 people from Ontario who are employed directly or indirectly by the oil sands, even in Fort McMurray, and hundreds of thousands of other people across this country.
The other question I have for you in relation to that is whether there are any further things we as a government can do to facilitate your organization in moving forward in studies like this. For instance, last night I had an opportunity to talk to two individuals from Bombardier, just talking in a general sense about some of the government's initiatives. Certainly we would like to participate in anything we possibly can in order to help your organization move forward with these proposals and studies.
