Transport Committee on May 26th, 2009

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just wanted to make a comment about the aspect of political will in this. We had some discussion about this before. We looked at the last study that was available to us. It was done in 1995. There appeared to be no political will at the time to participate. I'm very glad we are having this discussion now.

I wanted to turn the discussion just a wee bit. My riding is in York region. Newmarket--Aurora is at the very north end of the GTA, so it's probably not an area where high-speed rail is going to hit for a long time. However, I was very pleased not long ago to receive the Canadian Transit Forum and to see in it the Toronto transit light rail plan. It is really an integrated program they're looking at doing, and I'm very pleased to see in the plan that they plan to move up into York region to provide services up there.

I know we've talked about new corridors. York region is an area that has just now passed the one million population mark. It is going to be a thriving area in southern Ontario.

Has any discussion been done from your perspective on whether or not a high-speed rail corridor could actually service all of Toronto but come into York region?

[Mario Péloquin]

There's always a conflict between having a truly high-speed rail system and the number of stops that you want to build into the line. When anybody talks about building high-speed rail, of course, all the municipalities that are on the alignment or close to the alignment would like a stop in their municipality. I've seen projects that go from a straight line between two cities to a very curvy line that is not high-speed at all, because everybody wants to have a stop in their city.

I think the alternative to that, if you really want a high-speed network, is to have an integrated policy where you can have inter-city commuter rail that is medium-speed or low-speed. We see that all over the world in other places, where you have a hub and spoke system that brings people to the high-speed stations quickly, so they don't have to transfer a few times and so on.

If you have your high-speed network that makes only a few stops and it's complemented by a medium-speed system that brings people from the centres where they actually commute to and from, to link to the high-speed network, and then at the end of those spokes you have your local transit systems that complement that also, you will then have a fully integrated system and you can go from anywhere along the line to the high-speed network to the final destination.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I guess that's really what I'm asking.

Since we know we cannot use the corridors that are already in existence going into Union Station at the south end of Toronto, would it make more sense at this point, where land is a little bit more available through York region, through Durham region, to make York region the high-speed rail end--or start, depending on your perspective--integrate it with a program like the light-rail plan into Toronto, and make that the hub from which everything moves? I think we're talking, for the most part, about high-speed rail right now between Toronto and Montreal--and Ottawa is in there as well. We're looking at that as the first corridor, I would think, if this project were to be considered. Since York region is very accessible to Toronto, is there a possibility that we could look at this kind of program instead of only considering Toronto?

Have any of you had any discussion with Toronto on the viability of that?

[Mario Péloquin]

I haven't had any discussions on that point, but anything--

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

You must have an idea where the best corridor.... You must have some recommendations on that.

[Mario Péloquin]

I've been asked this question a few times in the past. The answer is difficult, because the best corridor will depend on the vision--referring to my opening comments--what the long-term vision is for the overall system, based on whether or not you want to service the maximum number of centres or you want to carry people from point A to point B in as fast as possible a timeframe. What you will do in between those points or at the end points will change your decision greatly.

For example, York region is a fine idea, but I'm sure Mayor Miller would have a different idea.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I'll advocate for York region.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you very much.

Monsieur Bélanger. Welcome back.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I'll simply reminisce, if I may, on my first question. I'll be on the periphery, if you will, as I'm peripheral to the committee right now.

Are there any systems in the world that currently operate with safety management systems, basically auto-regulated in terms of safety?

[Ashley Langford]

Are you talking about fully automated driving systems?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

No. Do you know what I'm talking about when I say safety management systems?

[Mario Péloquin]

Yes. The only one I know of is in the U.K., because the government of the U.K. about ten years ago decided that the only way to operate railways in the U.K. was with safety management systems. Canada piggybacked on that in the early 2000 years--

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

High-speed rail?

[Mario Péloquin]

No, no, just operating railways.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I'm talking about high-speed rail.

[Mario Péloquin]

For high-speed rail, I don't know of any country that uses that system to ensure safety.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

That will be useful later on when I try to prove a point.

Is there any research being conducted in Canada on high-speed rail, and if so, who's doing it?

[Mario Péloquin]

I personally don't know of anything.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

What about your companies? Are any of your companies doing any research into high-speed rail?

[Mario Péloquin]

For high-speed rail in Canada? Not Siemens.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

How about Bombardier?

[George Haynal]

We had done work on the jet train several years ago, and we were working with Queen's University as well.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Gentlemen, do you know whether there is currently one company in Canada, public or private, that is doing research into high speed trains?

[Mario Péloquin]

A group has recently been brought together to conduct a study. I think four or five companies make up the group. That is the only group doing a study.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Who is doing research anywhere in the world? I am talking about basic research that tries to improve the parts of the system.