Evidence of meeting #20 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was trains.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director, Mobility Division, Siemens Canada Limited
That really depends on the question you are asking. For example, if you are talking about research to improve electricity transmission technology for locomotives and signals, each company does its own research.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Okay, I understand that. Let me ask the question a little more directly, Mr. Chair.
Is anyone, anywhere, doing research to find a source of energy other than electricity, like hydrogen fuel cells, for example?
Director, Mobility Division, Siemens Canada Limited
Not for high speed trains, to my knowledge.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Mr. Haynal, I think you said that there is no 100% private sector high speed train in the world. I accept that.
If we turn the question around, are there high speed trains that are solely in the public sector?
Vice-President, Government Affairs, Bombardier Inc., Bombardier
Do you mean trains built by the state, with no participation from private companies?
Liberal
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
I am going to turn to our researchers to find out which systems were built and are operated by the state.
Are there any systems operating currently in the world where the airlines are partners?
Dan Braund Director, Business Development and Sales, Bombardier Transportation, Bombardier
There are at least two instances that we know of. This is a fairly recent development.
Director, Business Development and Sales, Bombardier Transportation, Bombardier
There is Lufthansa in Germany with Deutsche Bahn. In France, I believe the SNCF and Air France have these deals.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Thank you.
When we go to high-speed rail in Canada, I would be curious as to why we couldn't consider even, at least coast to coast, first of all.... I'm surprised that none of the companies that would eventually be participating in either supplying the trains or managing them down the road are engaged in any research.
Vice-President, Alstom Transport
What kind of research are you talking about?
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
I'm talking about any kind of research that would allow us to innovate, perhaps.
Vice-President, Alstom Transport
In Europe, where the bulk of the market is---
Vice-President, Government Affairs, Bombardier Inc., Bombardier
That's where the money is.
Director, Mobility Division, Siemens Canada Limited
I can comment also that given the number of studies that were done in Canada and the fairly low progress, I believe that probably none of the companies would see this as a high-potential project for which in the past they would have invested significant amounts of money to push for research for something that would not happen.
Liberal
Vice-President, Alstom Transport
Let's sort of separate two things here--the overall cost of the project versus the cost of the trains. The trains are really the small part of the package. The trains represent, I would say, maybe 10% of the cost of a project. The big cost is land acquisition and construction, and building all the bridges to separate the road traffic. Just that aspect is going to be 65% of the cost of the project, maybe more.
Vice-President, Alstom Transport
The operational side, relatively speaking, is going on each year, but that's a function of tens of millions, as opposed to billions. So if you're talking billions for constructing the system and for the land acquisition, which essentially is an asset--you're just exchanging a cash asset for a physical asset, which is retained by the crown--it's not really costing the crown anything. You retain the assets. The part that depreciates is the rolling stock and the stuff that's above the ground. That's really a small piece of the overall pot. And if you're saying Montreal to Toronto for the original study, how many trains do they need? For 12 trains it's going to be something like 10% of the project as a ballpark figure.