Transport Committee on May 26th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

We'll go to Mr. Jean.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Bélanger, for leading a great set of questions.

I'm wondering if there have been any Canadian proposals, plans, or studies in relation to an integrated network of high-speed rural rail and low-speed urban rail, or some other form of transit, such as bus stations, on a provincial, federal, or municipal scale. That's a big question. I know that it's been done in Europe quite a bit. Of course, as we've heard, money is the issue in Europe, but also in Europe is the issue of there being 16 to 30 persons per square mile, compared to just over 1.1 here. We have the lowest density of population in the world. Obviously, money is not the only issue.

Have there been studies done in Canada in relation to integrating a network, either private or public?

[Ashley Langford]

I think there's been a study in Alberta--I haven't seen it--looking at how they're going to integrate the rail stations in Calgary and Edmonton into the downtown cores so that they can move people from the light-rail systems onto the trains. I think there's a study going on now by Dessau and Marshall Macklin Monaghan looking at the same issue for the Toronto, Montreal, Windsor, Quebec corridor.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Are those studies readily available through any of your corporations?

I notice that Mr. Haynal might have a comment in relation to that.

[George Haynal]

I'm sorry, I missed your question. I was told to turn my mike off.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Actually, we heard everything you were talking about, sir.

[George Haynal]

There is total transparency.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

We like that as a government, so that's good news.

I was wondering if any of your companies have access to data on how to integrate a network of high-speed rail with moving people through communities. The question I'm asking, in essence, is whether it can be somewhat helpful.

I've never really been in much of a lineup between Toronto and Ottawa. I'm from Fort McMurray, Alberta, and I've never really been in a lineup between Edmonton and Calgary. But I've been in a lineup for four hours in downtown Edmonton, and I've been in a lineup in downtown Toronto for fours hours as well. I noticed that when Mr. Del Mastro mentioned this earlier, three or four of you gentlemen were nodding your heads in agreement that we need to look at an integrated network.

Now we have five heads nodding. That's good news.

How can you help this committee with that particular part of the study? And how should we go beyond looking just at high-speed rail and look at an integrated network itself? How can you help us with that? That's my question.

[Dan Braund]

First, we all have a wide range of products that cover the range of rail transportation needs for an integrated network. We're ready to help you whenever you need help. If there's information you need, or if you want us to participate in studies, we're obviously here to do that.

I think you were talking about higher-speed regional trains. One plan that's been recently approved is the regional transportation plan in the greater Toronto–Hamilton area. It included in it a number of what I would call higher-speed--I think they call them express rail--trains. These go in the neighbourhood of 160 kilometres per hour. They had a number of these lines in their plan. I think that's probably a good place to start. They have a regional transportation plan with some of those regional trains. By including that in a high-speed train study, you're then starting to get the kind of integrated planning we've been talking about.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Are there any other places you gentlemen would direct our analysts to look in relation to moving forward with an integrated network?

[Mario Péloquin]

I can think of one very good example, just off the top of my head. There's a very small city in middle Germany called Nuremberg. It's a small city of under one million people. They have a subway system, a light-rail system, a bus system, and a high-speed rail system all going through the city. People don't use their cars, basically. They can go anywhere. This is for under one million people.

If they could travel and talk to some people who made those decisions in places like that, it would go a long way in explaining how these integrated policies came together.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Are there any other opportunities that you see in Canada specifically that we could utilize, like proprietary reports that you could refer us to that have been done in Canada where some municipalities have moved forward with integrated networks?

We have a lot of expertise here, and you tell us that you're prepared to move forward with whatever help you can provide, but the reality is it's a very expensive process to do up these reports, and to pull a wish list out of the air on a situation as large as Canada is not an easy thing to do. I would put the challenge back to you, gentlemen, and your companies, to bring forward a proposal to the governments of whatever nature in order to make this not just profitable....

I understand, Mr. Langford, what you're saying, but we have provincial, federal, and municipal governments all working together trying to deal with this issue of transportation. It's very difficult, I understand, from your perspective to do so, but it's also very difficult to get all three levels of government working together.

[Ashley Langford]

The reality of it is for every 20 projects that any of our companies hear about, maybe one actually turns into a real project. A large part of what we do is talking to governments, different levels of government, and really trying to filter out which ones have the strong political will behind them, because that's the main determinant of whether a project goes forward or not, how much political decision-making has occurred and how much force there is to really put money behind it, fund the project and make it happen. Generally, there's a whole industry that does planning studies, Marshall Macklin Monaghan, IBI Group, Delcan, Hatchmont MacDonald. You can go to any one of these companies and they'll have dozens of studies for integrated transportation systems. That's their business.

Our business is much more limited. We'll come in, we'll join forces with the construction company, and we'll build something. We'll provide the rolling stock, the electrification. Generally, we're not even the operators. There's a whole industry that are operators and they do operations. They'll run the systems for you. We'll do maintenance. Generally, that's something we're very good at, because it's our equipment. But there are limitations to what we can do, as manufacturers.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Okay, very briefly, Mr. Haynal.

[George Haynal]

We'll help you, sure.The Advanced Systems Group in Kingston does a lot of thinking about these issues. It has a global mandate. So it has some global experience. If we can be helpful to you, we'd be delighted to do it. I know it's easy to urge political will, especially when you know you're not the one who is going to have to exercise it. If we can help you with that, we're delighted to do it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you very much.

I'm just going to take a one-minute break while we excuse our witnesses. I know there are a couple of issues that members very briefly want to present.

Thank you very much. We appreciate your time and your input.

One minute and then we'll get right back.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

If I may, I would just call for the attention of the committee again.

Ms. Chow, you had something you wanted to table today?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Mr. Chair, thank you for your indulgence.

I'm just placing a notice of motion. I know it requires some kind of introduction and certain hours. The motion is that the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities calls on the Government of Canada to release the results of six years' worth of studies on child car seat safety by Transport Canada.

I saw the CBC report last night, and I was thinking I'm going to be a grandmother soon, early June, and I was imagining my granddaughter sitting in one of these. There was one shot where they were whipsawing, and I thought I certainly hope that Canadians get to know which car seats are not up to par.

So I'll leave it in your good hands, Mr. Chair. I guess the committee will probably be dealing with it when the timing is right, and I certainly hope the minister releases those studies.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you. There will be a 48-hour notice, which you've given us today. So we will put it on.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Jean.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I want to make it clear that the minister has indeed made comments today in the newspaper that those results will be made public. Safety is paramount, and of course the safety of children as well, so he has instructed his officials to make those results public.

That's just a move ahead of the parade.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

So the motion may not be necessary. Thank you for that information. It's good to know.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Is there anything else?

On Thursday we have Transport 2000, the Airlines Council of Canada, and the Bus Association, along with the Teamsters and the City of London. Next Tuesday's full. I will probably talk to the subcommittee members in the next few days to organize a brief meeting to finish the agenda for the summer.

Thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.