Transport Committee on Nov. 30th, 2009

[Marc Grégoire]

No, I cannot give it to you just like that, but we have various systems to collect information or to listen to comments from industry. We have an internal system, which is called CAIRS, that can be used by external parties. But more importantly, among all of those carriers whom we are looking at now, we are interviewing in total probably hundreds and hundreds of people. These are very detailed interviews, in some cases lasting hours, with two inspectors. Say you are a manager or an employee choosing to be interviewed in that company; you're free to speak for a long time.

The purpose of those interviews is to measure the culture of safety in the enterprise, so of course we are collecting information, and of course in some cases it's not good and we're requesting that action be taken, but in other cases it's very good.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Well, the managers of the system are probably not the ones you want to—

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

I'm going to now have to go Mr. Jean.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, and thank you for coming today.

History has proven, I would suggest, that Canada has the safest airline regulatory system in the world, and indeed, that's the evidence you're giving today. Is that correct, Mr. Grégoire?

[Marc Grégoire]

Yes, that is correct.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Our regulations over the years have focused on accident prevention—a sort of proactive approach, rather than a results-oriented one. Is that correct?

[Marc Grégoire]

That is correct, sir. In fact, one of the most important benefits of SMS is to be proactive. Rather than waiting for an incident or an accident to occur, SMS forces companies to analyze everything, to receive reports from all employees, and to be more proactive in the management of any kind of safety issues and thereby prevent incidents or accidents from happening.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Indeed, ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organization, recommends that SMS be implemented worldwide. Is that correct?

[Marc Grégoire]

That is correct, and we're probably the most advanced country at this point.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

We've heard a lot of evidence here about SMS over a period of many weeks—in fact, months. SMS actually provides an additional layer of safety requirements over and above what we in Canada have utilized for years to make us the safest in the world. Is that correct?

[Marc Grégoire]

That is correct, sir. All the regulations and everything that applied before continues to apply today. SMS is an additional layer of regulations.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

So it has nothing to do with deregulation, nothing to do with self-regulation; it actually adds more monitoring, over and above what existed prior to SMS coming into play?

[Marc Grégoire]

That is correct, sir.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Now, I have a letter from you dated March 14, 2007, that indicates that the number of inspectors in 2001-02 was 866; the next year 871; the next year, 881; then 876 in 2004-05, 873 for 2005-06, and for 2007, 873. We've actually gone up to 87, and in fact we are trying to fill more positions than ever before in the history of Canada's aviation sector. It that correct?

[Marc Grégoire]

That is correct, but we are not trying to fill above 878; the number we want to reach is 878.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Okay.

The 5% of traffic not covered by SMS, as Mr. Volpe suggested, that those people are going around Canada worried about their safety, should not be worried about their safety, should they, sir? They're still covered by the existing system that has been in place for years. Is that correct?

[Marc Grégoire]

That is correct, sir. Nothing has changed for them.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I'd like to read a paragraph to you from something we haven't received as evidence yet, but we have received the written document. This is from Christine Collins, the national president of the Union of Canadian Transportation Employees. I quote:

One of the reasons we have such significant shortages is because Transport Canada has been using its aviation safety management system as a means to reduce safety budgets. In fact, over the past few years and in estimates going forward, Transport Canada is capturing most of its 5% program review cutbacks from aviation safety budgets.

Is that true?

[Marc Grégoire]

Certainly not. And I would know, I presume.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

You would know, you presume?

[Marc Grégoire]

Yes.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

You are responsible for that, indeed?

[Marc Grégoire]

Yes, sir.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

So if it were true, you would know.

[Marc Grégoire]

Yes.