Transport Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2009

[John Forster]

I guess I would make a couple of points on the spending issue.

First and foremost, jobs do not occur only when the federal money flows out the door. We reimburse costs as projects are built. It's part of our accountability regime to make sure that we're paying as things happen so that--

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Is that 30 days? Is that still the correct assumption?

[John Forster]

Once the claim has been verified and is accurate and is complete.

Now, under the building Canada fund, after the election the government came in and as part of the action plan said we need to accelerate that. We went to Treasury Board in February, and we changed some of the conditions and the criteria and cut the red tape around that program so that the approvals could move much more quickly.

Once those projects are approved, the proponents then are responsible for building them. I do not build the Sheppard LRT line in Toronto; the City of Toronto does it. I have every confidence in the City of Toronto that they want that built as fast as we do. Our funding therefore matches the pace of construction of the cities and the provinces and the others. It's a tremendous flexibility in the program that allows us to do that.

As Yaprak said, the money is not lost; it's there to match the pace of construction by our partners. To us, that's a very important feature of the program.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Laframboise.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

You say that the money is not lost, but it is allocated by province. According to the government's fourth report, 3,200 projects come from the Infrastructure Stimulus Fund. We are talking $8.3 billion, which would include the contributions of the provinces, territories and cities.

What is the federal government's share in the Infrastructure Stimulus Fund, and what is Quebec's share? Do you have those figures?

[Yaprak Baltacioglu]

Yes, Quebec's share is $936 million under the infrastructure stimulus fund. The way Quebec agreed to divide up its share was that it allocated and we agreed to $350 million for PRECO—this is the waste-water project—and another $450 million on provincial and municipal local projects. There is also some activity we're engaging in terms of investing some money in the ports and the port authorities, so I think that's around $136 million.

But, John, do you have any of the details of the other funds?

[John Forster]

Yes. In Quebec, across our funds to date, we have approved a total of 730 projects. That's across the building Canada and stimulus funds,

base funding.

There are several different programs.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

How much does that represent? Ms. Baltacioglu told us there was $936 million. What part of that $936 million has been committed, approximately?

[John Forster]

It's the Infrastructure Stimulus Fund.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Yes, but how much of that fund is committed to Quebec, right now?

[John Forster]

From the Infrastructure Stimulus Fund, $936 million is committed to projects in Quebec. That has been identified. The only exception is the PRECO program, a Quebec water pipeline program.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Yes, but I mean....

[John Forster]

Of all that money, $350 million has been committed to those programs, but Quebec has not yet approved all of the projects.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Are you saying that out of the $936 million, $350 million has been committed?

[John Forster]

No, there are a number of projects with Quebec. We are talking about $936 million for stimulus in Quebec. The funds have been committed for the projects. The projects have been identified for those funds. The only exception is the PRECO program. The funds have been committed. An agreement has been signed by the governments, but all of the PRECO program funding has not been approved for all of the projects yet. Quebec is in the process of receiving projects for that. That is why....

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

That does not worry you, even if the deadline is January 31. As I was saying earlier, I think there will be cities that are unable to carry out their projects, but you think that all of the money will be spent and there will not be any money available for Quebec on January 31.

[John Forster]

The PRECO program still has money for projects that are pending approval.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

So there will be others.

[John Forster]

The deadline is important for municipalities in Quebec

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

They will have to submit their projects as soon as possible to get the funding.

[John Forster]

Yes, Quebec implements these programs. There is a different form, but it is similar to the Infrastructure Stimulus Fund; it is one or two pages. Quebec is in charge of reviewing and receiving the forms and approving projects that are submitted to the federal government for approval.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

Mr. Jean, you can wrap it up for us.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Yes, absolutely.

Actually, Deputy Minister, I was very interested in hearing more about the spending and allocation function. Mr. Forster talked a little bit about it. Specifically, in relation to year over year and keeping track, you started to answer Mr. Kennedy's question in relation to that. I was wondering if you could expand somewhat.

[Yaprak Baltacioglu]

That's in terms of how construction project cycles work. We have shared a chart with the government operations committee. Maybe we will share it with this committee as well. You might find it useful.

It does give one an opportunity to look at how infrastructure project cycles work, from the application and funding to the government and the province or territory agreeing and jointly announcing the funding, and then to where the work can actually begin. It then goes into a pre-construction procurement stage, to the construction stage, and then to project completion and the submission of the claims.

The important thing in the infrastructure stimulus fund, for example, is that we have provided opportunities for provinces to submit progress reports to us, but hopefully claims information at the same time, so that when the claims information comes to us, we do an assessment. We have to make sure that we adhere to the requirements of the agreement and hold true to our accountabilities under the sections of the Financial Administration Act. Then, within the 30 days, we get the money out to the province.

It's important to say this, though. While we encourage the bills to come in and the claims to come in, we have many projects either competed or under way for which we have not received any submissions from provinces.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Any billings?