Transport Committee on March 26th, 2009

[Patrick Borbey]

I would say that because of a lack of facilities, we cannot collect information over a long period of time. In the past, there were no facilities to take readings. In conjunction with the International Polar Year, we managed to install some buoys which hopefully will provide readings for certain areas of the Arctic Ocean for many years.

Once we have collected some basic data over a period of five or ten years, we will be able to observe and understand long-term changes taking place. Right now, unfortunately, too many readings are taken only once. We make the effort to take readings over the course of one season, but we don't do any follow-ups.

From a regulatory standpoint, this data could be important. Factors affecting water quality in the Arctic can be quite different from the standards set for waterways in the south, given the wealth of scientific data on these bodies of water. However, not much is known about Arctic waters because this region is not accessible and collecting data has not been a priority. The International Polar Year was an opportunity for us to give priority to collecting data and we hope to continue on this path.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

What kind of information can you glean from buoy readings?

[Patrick Borbey]

The readings give us information about water temperature and salinity, the condition of the ice, the presence of nutrients in the water, the food chain, the health of whales and other marine mammals, just to name a few things.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Do you have enough staff to conduct follow-up operations?

[Patrick Borbey]

We play a very small role where science is concerned. We have small teams. Currently, we are involved in the project to build a research station. We played a coordination role during International Polar Year which is now coming to an end. We rely most heavily on departments that have a scientific mission, notably on Fisheries and Oceans, Environment Canada and Natural Resources Canada, as well as on Canadian universities and colleges and in some cases, on aboriginal organizations that have developed significant scientific capabilities. They are really the ones responsible for doing the work in the field.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you, Mr. Laframboise.

Mr. Bevington.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to the guests. I was certainly interested in your presentation. Over the years, INAC has been a bit of a yoke to any northerner who lived in the territories. I'm interested in some of the things you've said.

You have a provincial-like role in water, oil, and gas management, including a regulatory role. But to the principle of oil and gas management, do you consider, as you're in a trust position for the people of the Northwest Territories, that you manage the oil and gas with that trust as the primary goal of your management?

[Patrick Borbey]

I work for the federal government and that's where I take my directions. I understand that we do have to manage those responsibilities in a way that's compatible with the aspirations of northerners, so that means we have to do a lot of consultation, have a lot of involvement.

There are some areas, in the Northwest Territories, for example, where there are some responsibilities for wildlife that have already been devolved. So we do have to work together.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Under mineral development, which is one of the aspects under consideration, if you're developing a mine in the Northwest Territories, and you set up a mine plan with a certain tonnage, and the benefit to the Northwest Territories is more employment and business opportunities during the life of the mine, would you not be concerned if things were not going according to the plan? Would you not have some responsibility to step in if the situation was endangering the benefits to the people of the Northwest Territories? I can point to two mines in the Northwest Territories in which this might be a consideration. This has been going on for about 10 years.

Have you taken any steps to ensure that the benefits that were set up for the people in the Northwest Territories in mining development were properly taken care of by your department?

[Patrick Borbey]

The process to establish a new mine is complex and long, as you may know from experience with the mines that have opened or are going to open in the Northwest Territories. What's important to note is that we have responsibility for the regulatory regime.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

You also have responsibility for the ongoing mineral development—ensuring that the mines live up to their promises. You are a mineral development agency for the Northwest Territories.

[Patrick Borbey]

But the pace of that development is in large part dictated by the regulatory system.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

So if they were exceeding their regulatory....

[Patrick Borbey]

Then we have an inspection role to play.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Perhaps you could report back to me on what's happened with that over 10 years.

[Patrick Borbey]

You need to be specific about what you have in mind. The other issue is the benefit agreements that are negotiated between aboriginal people, in particular, and the mining companies. These are also an important measure of accountability.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

They are all time sensitive. All of the agreements made in the Northwest Territories depend on the length of the mine life. The royalties and taxation, which return to the federal government, are not time sensitive. In fact, the faster you take the stuff out of the ground, the more money the federal government makes out of those mines. This department seems to have a conflict with regard to natural resources issues in the Northwest Territories and other places.

I'm going to go on to another question on regulatory issues. When the McCrank report came back, its first recommendation was to institute land use plans. We have the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act. But the act's land use plan has never been implemented in a way that would allow it to work along with the regulatory system. Do you not agree that this is the primary problem with the regulatory system in the Northwest Territories?

[Patrick Borbey]

I don't know if it's the primary problem, but it's certainly an important one. We have been making progress. In unsettled areas, it's very slow progress, but we have land use planning committees in place in most of those areas. I agree that we have to accelerate that work. With good land use plans, you can streamline some of the issues that would normally be considered through the regulatory process. So I'm in agreement with your point.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

If you're in agreement, then I would expect that the rhetoric would not be about the complexity of the regulatory system. Instead, it would be about the fact that the regulatory system in its complexity has never been implemented. Without the land use plans, regulatory work is very difficult in the Northwest Territories.

I have another question. Within the NWT Act, there's no mention of highways. It's my understanding that the federal government still controls the development of new highways in the Northwest Territories. Is that your understanding?

[Patrick Borbey]

Sorry, I can't answer that right now. I will have to come back to you.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

That would be good, thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I would ask that you send that back through me.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Many of these issues are not related to the offshore, but they are related to the northern strategy that you presented here. That's why some of these issues are quite important to northerners.

In respect of research and development, in preparation for the responsibility for the extended pollution limit, and for pollution control in the north, are you now engaged in an active program to deal with oil spills in the Arctic?

[Patrick Borbey]

Yes, we are, and on a number of fronts.

We have a fairly robust program with the Arctic Council. An oil and gas assessment was done last year, and it was released by the Arctic Council. Canada was an important contributor to that. That certainly does help to improve the body of knowledge about the risks and the sensitivities of the Arctic. I did bring a copy, and I can give the website link. This is only the summary. The body of work that's behind that is quite substantive.

We're also working on the completion of the Arctic marine shipping assessment, which is due to be released following the ministerial meeting at the end of April, in Toronto. So again, that's a way that Canada contributes and works with its arctic neighbours on improving the body of knowledge about those issues.

We also have a protocol between us, the Coast Guard, Environment, DFO, the other players, which we negotiated a few years ago, in terms of clarifying roles and responsibilities should there be a spill. In fact I brought a copy of that because I thought it was relevant to the discussions of this committee. We have copies to distribute.

It's a fairly detailed protocol, which clearly outlines the responsibilities and interventions that have to be done as soon as an oil spill, or any spill, is detected. Although, thank God, we haven't had oil spills, we've had other types of spills that have put the marine environment at risk and we've had to intervene.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

Ms. Hoeppner.