Transport Committee on April 20th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Yes, you do. You have one minute.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

As for the passenger behavioural analyses or programs you have, I see that as almost as important, if not more important, than the body scanners. I never have any problems at the airport; I fly often enough that I know what I need to take off my person so that I can walk through the traditional scanners without a problem.

So really, the issue for me is the passengers themselves. Have there been any studies done or any information gleaned on how we can better identify those who may be a threat?

[Kevin McGarr]

Yes. We have worked closely with officials from Israel and with Transport Canada, mainly, and we have visited the facilities in Ben Gurion. We are aware of their programs.

We have already started the development of a passenger behaviour observation program that will allow us to identify behaviours that would indicate a requirement for secondary screening for some passengers. This is very much in line with what is commonly referred to as the Israeli approach, if you will, where we do want to create a shift away from looking for objects towards looking at passengers who demonstrate indicators of a malicious intent.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Volpe.

Oh, we are past the time. Thank you very much.

With that, I'll thank our guests for today. I lost track of the time.

Thank you for the information. I'm sure we'll be hearing from you in the future.

[Kevin McGarr]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

We're going to take a brief two-minute break and then we'll invite our next guest up to the table and continue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Welcome back to part two of our meeting. Transport Canada is now with us.

Mr. Marc Grégoire, assistant deputy minister, safety and security group, and Laureen Kinney, director general, aviation security directorate, welcome again to our committee. We appreciate your attendance.

Mr. Grégoire, if you have any opening comments, go ahead. Then we'll move right to questions.

[Marc Grégoire, Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport]

Good morning. Thank you very much for inviting us again. It's always a pleasure.

Maintaining a secure aviation security regime is a key component of Transport Canada's mandate, and we're working with our partners, such as CATSA, in doing so.

Ongoing domestic and international intelligence reports confirm that civil aviation remains a favoured target for terrorists globally and that Canada remains a possible target. The seriousness of this target was underscored throughout the world and here at home on December 25, 2009, when a terrorist attempted to detonate an explosive on a flight between Amsterdam and Detroit.

Indeed, the fact that this incident occurred over Canadian air space illustrates that Canada is not immune to terrorist attack. This is but the latest reminder that terrorists are continuing to seek new ways to bypass the measures we have in place.

Transport Canada's efforts in aviation security go back many decades, since Air India in particular. Also, September 2001 was another key milestone in Canada's aviation security program, and the government has made major investments in aviation security.

In total, the government has allocated over $4 billion since 9/11 towards this goal. We improved the system and closed important gaps by creating CATSA to ensure consistent screening at Canadian airports. We reinforced cockpit doors on commercial aircraft. We established an inflight security officer program, run by the RCMP. We implemented biometric restricted-area identity cards at airports. We strengthened our oversight and inspection regime.

More recently, in budget 2010, the government announced $1.5 billion for CATSA and Transport Canada to enhance Canadian aviation security with advanced technology, more screeners, and improved programs. Budget 2010 also allocated $37.9 million over two years to secure a key sector of Canada's aviation system by implementing a comprehensive air cargo security program.

We have been working very hard to help accelerate the implementation of these enhancements in light of the December 25, 2009 incident and the impact that new security requirements have had on travellers and industry, although the US measures have now been modified and impacts are much reduced.

The line-ups and wait times we saw at our airports following the December 25, 2009 incident illustrate the challenge that we face in striking the right balance between security and efficiency, or in other words, the challenge of maintaining security while limiting the social and economic costs attached to security measures. This is particularly true in times of crisis. We must always remember that the aviation system is widely integrated. We must meet international obligations under the international civil aviation organization. This is essential if we want to allow our aviation industry to compete on an even playing field and to maintain unfettered access to important destinations like the United States.

Nonetheless, we recognize that having passengers line up for hours at airports for screening is not sustainable, as it damages the aviation industry, results in lost productivity and unacceptable inconvenience for Canadians, and ultimately impacts our economy.

The good news is that CATSA is rolling out more efficient and internationally compatible screening technology. They are continuing to study their processes and develop new approaches, as we heard this morning, including the trusted traveller pilot project currently under way at the Ottawa airport. Another example, which was also discussed at length, is the installation of full body scanners at major Canadian airports.

We are also actively working on new ways to improve the system and bring down the costs. One great example is exploring the possibility of integrating passenger behaviour observation into the screening processes. By focusing our efforts on potential higher-risk passengers, we expect to improve screening effectiveness and at the same time potentially target our resources where the benefits are the greatest.

However, as we make the screening process more secure, we recognize that terrorists may shift their focus to other “softer” targets at the airport. That is why we are in the process of establishing regulatory requirements for airports to develop security plans aimed at addressing the full range of risks facing their operations, including outside the restricted areas where the public and passengers may congregate.

We are also actively engaged with our international partners to improve the security of the global system. Over the last four months, Transport Canada and Public Safety have participated in a number of regional ministerial meetings on aviation security in Mexico, Japan and Nigeria. We are also allocating funding to build capacity in countries that need our help to meet these important security requirements.

As I've tried to illustrate, Transport Canada's approach to aviation security is based on continuous improvement. We welcome and appreciate input and suggestions from international and domestic partners, and we have, to the extent possible, incorporated the recommendations of various studies over the past few years.

In particular, we look forward to the committee's comments and suggestions that may come forward from your study of aviation security as we move on a variety of fronts and in the face of many challenges. We will continue our commitment to ensure the safety and security of passengers while maintaining the efficiency and competitiveness of Canada's aviation industry.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Volpe.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Grégoire and Ms. Kinney.

Monsieur Grégoire, since the announcement of December 25-26, almost all the new measures for security have been lifted; for secondary screening, for carry-on luggage, they've have all been eliminated. Does that mean that the mere promise of 44 new body scanners accomplished the job?

[Marc Grégoire]

I should say that not one single measure will ever do the job. In security, we have an approach that is multi-layered; sometimes we like to compare it to peeling an onion. So we have technology, we have sharing of information, and we have processes in place--

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

So they've all been successful is I guess what you're telling me.

I want to go back, if I may, to the questioning I had for the people from CATSA--who have all gone, yes?

From what Mr. McGarr said, and what you just said, I gather you monitor CATSA fairly closely. Is it an accurate assessment that there is this constant flow of reciprocal information and supervision in order to make the thing a seamless web?

[Marc Grégoire]

Yes, it is.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Now, are you aware that there were other imaging systems and companies that could provide the standard we would demand as Canadians, such as Smiths Detection, Brijot Imaging Systems, Farran Technology Ltd., Intellifit, and ThruVision? Yet none of them were consulted on this.

[Marc Grégoire]

We leave the technology acquisition to CATSA. We approve performance. CATSA decides on which manufacturer they're going to use, so we have no involvement--

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

You weren't aware that there was only one supplier that they were dealing with?

[Marc Grégoire]

We have seen other equipment providers; some of those are perhaps not as well tested from a health perspective. For instance, the backscatter equipment radiates more waves than the one that was chosen, but again, we are not involved directly in the choice of equipment. CATSA is a crown corporation and it's their mandate to buy the equipment. We have no influence, if you will, on this.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

You're satisfied that the 44 scanners and the $11 million cost to acquire them would be sufficient to meet the needs of Canada. Forty-four scanners is quite a number.

[Marc Grégoire]

Yes, but they have far more screening lines in Canada, so it's not impossible that in the future we would like to have more of those scanners.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Well, can I follow that up for a second? Because a moment ago, you said that we have a commitment to national security on the aviation safety side, and that we've spent, as a government, about $4 billion over the course of, what, nine years.

But now we're going to spend another $1.5 billion. That's how much is committed. That's a 37% increase over something that's already working. You have to help me through this, Mr. Grégoire, because the $1.5 billion will acquire another 60,000 scanners.

[Marc Grégoire]

No, I don't think that CATSA... CATSA is working now to develop their corporate plan.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

So if it's not going to go to 60,000 scanners, because we don't know where to put them...

[Marc Grégoire]

No. The bulk of that money is operating money. The budget of CATSA--

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

So just a second, Mr. Grégoire. If it's not going to go to scanners... We were just treated to an hour's dissertation on how great they are as part of the thin layers of the onion. If it's not going to be used for scanners...let's say that they use just half of that amount of money, for personnel, for research, or for people who are actually going to do the operations.

Right now, CATSA has about 6,000 screening officers, I believe. Well, on an annual basis, they'd be able to hire another 7,500 people at $40,000 apiece or 3,750 people at $80,000 apiece. What are they going to do with that money? Have they told you?

[Marc Grégoire]

Oh, yes.