Transport Committee on May 27th, 2010

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay.

Also, I know the Liberals--it's become clear--favour the Ambassador Bridge monopoly. That's been a long-held position, I guess, for the party. Former Liberal cabinet minister, Susan Whelan, was offered a very soft landing by the Ambassador Bridge, with a job there after I defeated her in 2004. But here's what Mr. Stamper—

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Volpe, on a point of order.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

It had better be a point of order, Mr. Chair--I would hope.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Yes.

I think, Mr. Chair, there's always a lot of leeway for what people can say or not say, and we try to stay away from statements that inflame passions of partisanship.

Ms. Whelan has not been a member of Parliament for some years. Minister Van Loan was an employee of the Ambassador Bridge. Last time I checked, Mr. Van Loan was still a member of cabinet. I did not mention his name. I did not talk about recusal. I did not talk about casting aspersions on people who do their jobs, and I don't think anybody around this table does.

I would ask you to ask Mr. Watson to stick to questions related to the decisions with respect to what Michigan did or did not do without talking about whether somebody lands softly or harshly after they have left public office. Otherwise, I guess we're going to have to ask how it is that a minister of the crown currently can recuse himself from a decision when you can only do that or only need to do that if you actually still have an interest in the decision that's being made.

So if Mr. Watson was wanting to raise a point of order so that we could again entertain the idea of bribery and corruption in this government, well, then, let's go ahead. Otherwise, let's be serious and ask the minister questions that are linked to the estimates.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Watson, on the same point of order.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

No, I have nothing to add to that, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you. It's not a point of order, but a clarification.

Mr. Watson.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. It was part of a preamble to a question I was moving to, by the way.

Mr. Dan Stamper, president of the Detroit International Bridge Company, was quoted in The Windsor Star this morning about that process in Lansing yesterday, and I quote him. He said, “We've had fun here”, referring to the Ambassador Bridge folks. He goes on to say, “We understand now how the game is played in Lansing.”

I think the unemployed in Windsor–Essex would hardly view this as a game with respect to their future. I don't know if you'd care to comment. Do you share Mr. Stamper's view that a new crossing between the two countries and maintaining or enhancing the importance of our trade with the United States somehow all revolves around a game?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

As one of the political ministers for Ontario, I think we're deeply concerned about unemployment. You've certainly been very active in ensuring that the government is aware of that. The economy in Windsor–Essex is experiencing real trouble. We've been I think pretty generous to that community in terms of the infrastructure stimulus fund. The DRIC project would see billions of dollars being spent in that region. It would do a lot as a shot in the arm for those unemployed, whether you're a steelworker or, frankly, whether you deliver pizza. It would put a lot of money into the economy. We think it's pretty important.

I think, though, when you look at the campaign finance rules in the United States.... In Canada we can take great pride both in the reforms that Prime Minister Chrétien brought in and the landmark reforms that Prime Minister Harper brought in to take the influence of big money out of politics. I think that's a very good thing and a positive thing.

I'll just let people connect the dots on their own.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

I note in your comment that in fact the highest per capita infrastructure stimulus funding in the country went to Windsor–Essex.

The Ambassador Bridge has floated a proposal, if you will, to twin their bridge or replace their bridge. I guess it depends on which day and which audience their speaking to, whether it's twinning or replacing. I would argue they're talking but not acting like it. They've talked about being shovel-ready with this project.

What permits are needed for this twinning or replacement spending? Which do they have?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

There are no applications before any government body, federally, provincially, municipally, that I'm aware of for the twinning of the Ambassador Bridge. Some like to leave the impression they're all ready to go, that if the government would just stamp their form they could twin that bridge tomorrow, when in fact a huge amount of work has been done by successive Ontario governments, by this and the previous federal government, by the city. A huge amount of effort has gone in, and I think that simply for national security reasons and economic security reasons to twin an existing bridge after 9/11 is not a good idea; it's distinctly a bad idea. If anything happened to that bridge, the southwestern Ontario economy and the Michigan economy could come to their knees in a matter of days if not a matter of hours. So we're deeply concerned about that.

There is just an unprecedented consensus on the need for a second bridge over the Detroit River. You have the Premier of Ontario, the Prime Minister of Canada. You have the infrastructure minister, the finance minister here. You have Governor Granholm very strongly in support, as well as her predecessors, Governors Engler and Blanchard. You have Ray LaHood, the U.S. Secretary of Transportation, who spoke out very strongly this week for a second bridge. You have the mayor of Windsor, the mayor of Detroit. You have the two Liberal cabinet ministers from Windsor. You have your own strong leadership in this regard. All the stars are aligned to give this boost to the manufacturing sectors of Ontario and Quebec. We need to get it done. We have a very tough road ahead, though. It is going to be very tough in the Senate, in Lansing. At this stage I'm not optimistic we can get it through.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

To be specific, if I understand correctly, there are at least two U.S. federal permits and three federal permits here that they don't have. I'll go a step further. If I understand it correctly, it's actually one of our federal government agencies that is doing some of the work that the bridge should be doing with respect to reviewing the plaza needs in Windsor at the Ambassador Bridge, or future needs there. Is that correct? Are we in fact doing that work rather than the bridge company?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We're making major investments for a new plaza. We acquired about 80% of the lands in the city of Windsor. There's just overwhelming support, especially for the Windsor–Essex parkway. We have 17 traffic lights through Windsor. This, in many respects, is not a Windsor problem. It's a Quebec problem. It's an Ontario problem. Whether it's an auto parts manufacturer in southern Quebec or whether it's agrifood processing in Leamington, with the bottlenecks, it's a huge problem for competitiveness.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

The Ambassador Bridge in Fort Erie-Buffalo, where there are more bridges and lane capacities than between Windsor and Detroit, also has lower vehicle traffic than we have in the corridor, yet they're arguing, in order to build a new bridge there, that they have sufficient vehicle traffic for the future, looking at the projections there; yet in the Windsor-Detroit corridor, they are arguing the exact opposite, that somehow vehicle projections won't support a new bridge that would compete against their bridge there.

What are the traffic projections for DRIC, and are you confident of them?

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I'm sorry, Mr. Watson, we're well over time.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Let me see if I can just jump in to respond very quickly.

Traffic in the first four months was up by 20%—22% at Detroit. That's huge, but the bottom line is that when Pepsi has the monopoly and Coke wants to come into town, Pepsi is not exactly going to be excited and supportive and necessarily upfront with that.

This is desperately needed, and we're committed to doing all we can. It's going to be very tough. I'm not, by any means, going to say we can get it passed through the Senate.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

Mr. Volpe, on a point of order.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

It's clear that the minister has added that he would like to share with the committee, and I invite him to do so, the studies that illustrate the tremendous need that he has talked about.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Certainly anything that's publicly available we can get to you.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

No, I mean the stuff that you have, and you probably already have it in French and in English. So I wonder whether you'd make available--

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Anything that we can make available, we will.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

Due to time constraints, I'm going to go one more round of three minutes each.

Mr. Kennedy.

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'm going straight to questions on the lack of accountability for your program and the failure in terms of jobs for infrastructure. Last year, only 12% of your money got out: 12.8%, according to the Parliamentary Budget Officer. You have requisitioned billions of dollars. Can you tell us directly, and can you provide backup, project by project, as to how many jobs were created by the billions of dollars that you took?

Can you tell us how much money was actually spent in each of the programs, particularly infrastructure stimulus programs, in the year that finished two months ago?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We'll certainly get you all the information we have.